Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo






runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) | Log in: (), globally (lost password?)

Page:  1  2 

 
Littlemonk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator

Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 429
Reply | Quote
Death-blow rule (Gav Thorpe's answer to)


I wrote to Gav Thorpe recently and asked about the Death-blow rule in Warhammer Quest (posted below). With his hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of playtesting behind him, here was his reply on January 11, 2013:

Q: Gav, you have to tell us, after 17 years of uncertainty in Warhammer Quest, does a Monster have to be on full Wounds when you strike it in order to cause a Death-blow? We beg you, please end the controversy once and for all!

A: From what I can remember (and it was a long time ago) there was no restriction on deathblows other than to kill the enemy in one hit. If previously wounded, that just makes it easier.

Last edited by Littlemonk, 10/Jan/2018, 4:59 am


---
Warhammer Quest Fanpage

Warhammer Quest Customized

19/Jan/2013, 3:22 pm Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


17 years is a long time, but I think his amount of play testing and connection with the game qualifies as a rather authoritative answer! I will share this with my gaming community. emoticon

However, the way they worded the Wardancer's rules seemed to clarify the issue in the opposite direction.

My group plays that any kill can result in a death-blow regardless of whether the monster had been previously wounded.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 19/Jan/2013, 3:30 pm


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
19/Jan/2013, 3:28 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Littlemonk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator

Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 429
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

However, the way they worded the Wardancer's rules seemed to clarify the issue in the opposite direction.



I've thought about the part in the Wardancer booklet. And i've come to the conclusion that they are referring to only the Wardance skill and not the Death-blow when they mention an uninjured Monster.

So in other words, you don't need to kill an uninjured Monster with a Death-blow, but to use the Wardance skill you do. And this is where all the confusion of the original Death-blow began.


7. Wardance
In combat, if the Wardancer kills an uninjured Monster with one blow, then apart from making a death-blow as usual, he rolls a dice. On a score of 4+, put the model onto his Warrior card or Adventure Record sheet, aside from any other Monsters he may have killed in the combat. Now carry on with his death-blow, and so on.




Last edited by Littlemonk, 20/Jan/2013, 4:40 am


---
Warhammer Quest Fanpage

Warhammer Quest Customized

20/Jan/2013, 4:38 am Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
Bogul Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Novice

Registered: 12-2012
Posts: 7
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


Now that are good news :-)
I will play according to this faq now!

Did you ask him by the way, if gw plans to do a revision of our beloved game in the future?

Littlemonk, so you are the guy running the WHQ Facebook Site?
You are doing a good job, thank you for the effort and the stuff you are posting from time to time, always a joy to read.
20/Jan/2013, 5:38 am Link to this post Send Email to Bogul   Send PM to Bogul Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


Littlemonk, your explanation of the Wardance skill makes a lot of sense. However, I was referring to the Dance of Death beginning skill, which I quote below. It seems to emphasize that a death-blow only results if an uninjured monster is killed with a single blow, although the term uninjured is not used here like it was in the Wardance skill quoted by Littlemonk above. I do think it is implied though.

I have added bold format to the words which I think bear upon this issue.

quote:

The Wardancer player should keep track of how many squares he moves each turn particularly when he is in combat. When fighting, if the Wardancer kills a Monster with one blow, he gets his death-blow as usual, including his special ability for his twin swords. If, having dispatched his foe with a single blow, he is not in a position to make a death-blow, then the Wardancer's Dance of Death skill takes effect. He may now use any movement he has left to bring him into contact with Monsters, and then continue his death-blow, and so on. This continues until he either misses with his death-blow, fails to do enough damage to kill in a single blow, runs out of movement or has no more Monsters to fight.



I suppose it could be understood to only refer to the Wardancer, but that seems to be making the death-blow more restrictive for one Warrior whose beginning skill is supposed to make death-blow rule less restrictive. Perhaps asking Gav Thorpe about this text of the Wardancer's rules would be enlightening, though he was not the author of this one. I think the Wardancer was a fairly early Warrior Pack....

I doubt any clarification one way or the other will make any difference to my own gaming, but I am intensely curious about what are the right answers. emoticon

EDIT: BUT, looking back at Gav's answer, he says the only restriction he remembers was that the monster must be killed in one hit. This would at least mean that the same Warrior could NOT have hit the same monster previously in the same turn and then gain a death-blow by killing this monster with a second or third Attack (in that same turn). It seems to me that the more simple understanding would be that killing a monster with one hit implies it was not wounded to begin with. So, does Gav's own answer contradict itself?

Last edited by OldWarrior, 20/Jan/2013, 3:59 pm


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
20/Jan/2013, 1:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Littlemonk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator

Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 429
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


I don't think Gav meant "in one hit ONLY" - i think we're taking everything a little to literal. He wasn't writing a rule, just remembering whether the Monster should have been on full Wounds or not.

I do think that the Wardancer is the only one they're referring to in the Wardancer booklet in the Dance of Death and the Wardance skills. It makes sense because if not, the Wardancer is SUPER powerful with that Dance of Death skill.

I've posted a review (and contest) on BGG if everyone hasn't already checked that out. Insightful comments and discussion such as this thread is always welcome!

WARDANCER: The Lethal, the Limited, and the Lethargic (50GG Contest!)

Contest runs for another 24 hours!

Last edited by Littlemonk, 20/Jan/2013, 4:22 pm


---
Warhammer Quest Fanpage

Warhammer Quest Customized

20/Jan/2013, 4:19 pm Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


Well, when all else fails, read the actual Death-blow rule. It is easy to remember it incorrectly. This rule does apply to all Warriors, not just the Wardancer, because I quote the rule from the WHQ Rule Book itself, which came before the Wardancer (with his exceptions to the Death-blow rule). While I do NOT follow this rule literally in my games -- I interpret it more loosely -- I DO believe in understanding the meaning of words. This is why I suggested (under another topic recently) interpreting the death-blow rule more leniently to help make the game easier.

quote:

DEATH-BLOW
(Killing a Monster with a Single Blow)


Sometimes a Warrior will hit a Monster so hard that he kills it with a single blow. If this happens he can carry on his attack to the next Monster, getting a chance to kill him too. This follow-on attack represents the mighty swing of the Warrior's blade hacking down his foes in one monstrous blow.

If there is another Monster standing in an adjacent square to the Warrior's initial target, and that is still within the range of his attack, the swing of his blade may catch it too. Roll to hit and wound the Monster as normal. If this Monster is also killed with a single blow, the blow carries on round in the same direction to the next Monster, and so on.

This mighty blow, which we call a death-blow, stops when the Warrior fails to kill a Monster with a single blow, or his blade meets an obstacle such as a wall or another Warrior.

Note that if you kill a Monster with a single blow from an arrow or other missile weapon you do not get to carry on to the next Monster, as you cannot hit more than one target with a single arrow.

Only Warriors may make a death-blow, not Monsters.



(From page 24 I think)

The following is my understanding from just carefully considering the Rule Book: If every kill with a melee weapon qualifies for a death-blow (the usual way I play it by the way), then the words single blow would have no meaning here. This is the basic death-blow rule for all Warriors in combat. It is a sidebar rule and not even mentioned elsewhere in the Rule Book. It is something extra and apparently was not intended to apply to every monster kill in close combat.

So, as it relates to the Wardancer, I am now pretty sure that they were just reiterating -- or emphasizing -- that the original death-blow rule (indicated by the words gets his death-blow as usual) DID limit Warriors to only accomplishing a death-blow IF they killed a monster with a single blow.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 21/Jan/2013, 3:11 am


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
21/Jan/2013, 2:36 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Littlemonk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator

Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 429
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


Point taken and i have to agree about the "single blow" not having much meaning if every blow were true. And you're right that Gav mentioned those words "single blow" again...

So that leaves me to wonder then that if your FIRST attack drops a Monster - even if injured - if that constitute a Death-blow.

"Full Wounds" was never mentioned until the Wardancer. And it is possible that Andy Jones was using the opportunity to clarify the Death-blow rule. But if it wasn't for GW's notorious habit of errors and omissions in their rules, then i would take it at face value.

But if you'll remember that it says in the Wardancer booklet that you also can't carry the lantern and use two swords. Which brings up a whole myriad of problems when carrying the lantern as any other Warrior.

You'll also remember that it says that the Wardancer can replace his Twin Swords if he ever loses them. But we also know that, according to the makers of WHQ, you can't ever lose your starting equipment, weapons, etc.!?

So if that part of the Wardancer rulebook is incorrect, then what else is incorrect?

And if the Wardancer booklet corrects some of the previous rules, then how much of the previous rules are wrong?

So, when all if fails, DON'T read the actual anything in Warhammer Quest! emoticon It is possible that the "single blow" from the Death-blow rule actually DOES NOT have any meaning and was simply worded poorly or wrong...!

Damn. Back to square one...

Last edited by Littlemonk, 21/Jan/2013, 8:07 am


---
Warhammer Quest Fanpage

Warhammer Quest Customized

21/Jan/2013, 4:02 am Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


Well, I don't think it is entirely "back to square one", because at least two things came out of this discussion for me:

1. I am now much more clear on my own understanding of the death-blow rule and on my own house ruling on the issue.

2. This discussion has inspired me... I have decided to return to my gaming community with my Hardcore WHQ games (just one for now), in which I toss out my house rules and play 'by the book'. emoticon Don't worry, most of my other games will still use my house rules. My house rules make WHQ much easier in general than they are right out of the box.

I'll add a third:

3. Those who were involved more officially (or at least semi-officially) with GW -- like Gav -- prove to be gamers just like the rest of us who probably do not always follow the letter of the rules on everything in games like WHQ. That gives me some feeling that we are not necessarily 'getting it wrong'. emoticon

I certainly agree that GW has had a lot of inconsistencies in their rules -- mostly my experience is with WHQ, but that is complicated enough! emoticon

By the way, I remember reading a man's comments about the early DnD games and how he said that they very often found out that they were NOT reading the rules correctly (the implication was LONG AFTER the fact), BUT, they DID have fun! He was much involved at some point in the creation or further development of the very rules that they were 'getting wrong'! Such is the nature of the beast when you have books of rules (IMO).

One of the particular rules I remember that man was addressing within the context of his statements about 'getting it wrong' had to do with rolling Critical Hits -- a sort of similar concept in a way to our beloved Death-blow. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 21/Jan/2013, 7:50 am


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
21/Jan/2013, 7:48 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
WillOhio Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Novice

Registered: 06-2013
Location: NEOhio
Posts: 14
Reply | Quote
Re: Death-blow rule


quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

 Don't worry, most of my other games will still use my house rules. My house rules make WHQ much easier in general than they are right out of the box.




 Do you have your House Rules posted anywhere? If not could you list them for me?

Thanks. And this has been an interesting discussion. Plus how cool was it that LittleMonk got a reply from Gav himself.

 
~Will

11/Jun/2013, 3:36 am Link to this post Send Email to WillOhio   Send PM to WillOhio Blog
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2 





You are not logged in (login)