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Lord
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Gold Value of Monsters?


Are there any published formulas or guidelines for calculating the Gold Value of custom Monsters? I usually try to find the closest similar Monster in the Beasiary.
6/Jun/2003, 7:49 am Link to this post Send Email to Glitch   Send PM to Glitch
 
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


The 'official' rules as published in White Dwarf read:

"Working out the value of Monsters is really simple. The Gold value of a creature is simply its Warhammer points value multiplied by 10. All you have to do is consult the army list of the Monster and do your sums!"

When I was converting Monsters for use in Warhammer Quest I just looked at similar Monsters in the Bestiary also since I didn't have all the army books and didn't know what some Monsters points values were.
6/Jun/2003, 2:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to Andrew MSN
 
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Lord
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


Right, but what about new monsters that I invent? Anyone know of any guidelines?
7/Jun/2003, 12:52 am Link to this post Send Email to Glitch   Send PM to Glitch
 
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Gold Value of Monsters


I read the article he referred to above, but haven't tested it. Here's the top three things I would use for calculating gold value:

Sneak Damage: Ambush, Assassinate, Magic, Ignore Armor etc.
Example: Skaven Assassins.

Slam Damage: 2D6+Strength, Magic Weapon, 2+ Attacks, Weapon Skill 5+, multiple enemies etc.
Example: Minotaurs.

Protection: High Wounds, Weapon Skill 5+, 3 Armor, Magic Armor, Dodge, Fear.
Example: Chaos Warriors.

When you create monsters, consider the party. If one or two Warriors are never worried, tailor some Monsters to go after them. For instance, Vomit can worry a Warrior with high armor, while Magic Drain shuts down only the Wizard.

Now Magic, for instance, is so powerful, that the enemy wizard needs to be destroyed before he can cast many spells. Yet if he doesn't get a chance to attack, was he really worth the gold value? I think some of these wizards should have more Wounds or an item to Ambush. Note that only a character who can attack a distant wizard (e.g. the Wizard Warrior) will kill him for the big payoff. When I was the Witch Hunter, I'd save my Vengeance skill for an enemy wizard, jump next to him, and kill him for triple gold!

Number is important. Supporting troops are important too. If 4-5 Warriors gang up on 1 Minotaur, he might not knock anyone to 0 Wounds. However 1 Minotaur + others can be dangerous.

Here's a problem I discovered in the book:
Skeleton (80 Gold) 5 Wounds, 1D6+3 Damage.
Tomb Guardian(110 Gold) 15 Wounds, 2D6+3 Damage.
Wight (370 Gold) 14 Wounds, 2D6+3 Damage.
The Tomb Guardian needs to be increased closer to the Wight (I tried 220 Gold).

Finally, I advise that if you create your own monsters, make them different from the originals. There are many that do 2D6+Strength with or without Magic Item, Magic Armor, and Magic Weapon. There is nothing that does 3D6+Strength straight.
7/Jun/2003, 5:01 pm Link to this post Send Email to sudas  
 
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Lord
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


Thanks for the thoughts, interesting things to consider!
8/Jun/2003, 1:43 am Link to this post Send Email to Glitch   Send PM to Glitch
 
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


In the case of Wight vs. Tomb Guardian, you have to understand GW's emphasis on Psycology and Toughness - a single increase can drastically effect a creature's Point Value. Translation: 2 more Toughness and 2 more Fear = lots more gold.

If you're still a bit confused by this, take a look at the Sylvanian Wight (6th Edition Wight). They've got Killing Blow 6+. That's better.

Timberwulf
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posticon Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


I found an interesting article in the list here is it:
quote:

One recurring topic on the List has been the relationship between the stats of a monster and the gold value. Is there a formula? I for one, thought not. As I said to PHIL, they work out the gold values by multiplying the wounds value by 10, and subtracting toughness multiplied by 5, then throwing away that number and putting whatever they feel like.

  But I digress. I thought it would be a good idea to try and work out this formula once and for all. First off, I thought I would try simultaneous equations using the wounds and toughness values. I then found that this didn't work. Then I tried simultaneous equations using 6 of the stat values. This didn't work even more.

  Then I figured, why not just try random combinations of stats until I get to something that might be nearly correct.

  I will save you the details, but eventually I came up with this equation here:

Gold = (Strength+Toughness+Armour+WS+Initiative+Attacks+Moves+X)*Wounds

What is X? X is the fudge factor. Essentially, it is obvious that there can be no precise formula, since when you look at how many 1500 gold monsters there are compared to 1768 gold monsters (for example) it's clear that there is some rounding involved. This is where X fits in. X is a small number which is used to boost the gold score for those creatures that have other talents not expressed numerically in the stats. Monsters that have magic, fear and terror, and annoying skills which randomly result in all the warriors dying, etc. are going to have a bigger X value. X is small, usually about 2. For some creatures it can be as high as about 6. Some more pathetic monsters have X=0.

  While some more cynical list members of the list might say "X = whatever makes your formula work" it's clear that the same formula without any X at all works for quite a few monsters within a surprising accuracy.

  Anyway, I hope that this is useful to you all.

John C.C. Walden



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Bruno
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22/Jul/2003, 6:24 am Link to this post Send PM to Bruno
 
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


An interested link
[sign in to see URL]

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Bruno
http://wquest.free.fr
22/Jul/2003, 6:30 am Link to this post Send PM to Bruno
 
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Lord
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


Bruno,

Thanks so much for the excellent research. This will help me figure out the Gold Value of some custom nasties you might be facing later in your Web-Quest carrer! emoticon
23/Jul/2003, 2:35 pm Link to this post Send Email to Glitch   Send PM to Glitch
 
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God
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Re: Gold Value of Monsters?


Dear All,

I continue my research
I use the WHQ Acess Database and compare the value with that formula
quote:

Gold = (Strength+Toughness+Armour+WS+Initiative+Attacks+Moves+X)*Wounds


The space between value is gigantic. It may vary over the double. I don't think the formula is good

I found another interesting article on Warhammer Ancient
~ancients/[sign in to see URL]]Calculating Points Values by Jervis Johnson


But the real work is to study the document of carmen and to adapt it to WHQ.
]Calculating Points Values
For instance fear4 and fear10 won't be the same
We must try to calcul the value for the differents skills
With Excel, I think we will arrive to found a very good gold formula.

Once it's done it'll be easy to create new monsters and new races from scratch.

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Bruno
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