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Registered: 08-2003
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posticon Making Monster Tables


Hey there..

It's great to see new support for Quest finally! I'd become discouraged when all the web sites I'd been visiting had last updates of 2001 or early 2002.

I've been trying to make tailor the random monster tables to my collection of miniatures, because I don't want to make cards for them, and I don't want to go out and buy all the monsters that are on the existing tables.

How do you figure out what battle levels are suitable for each monster? I've been trying to eyeball it, but it's a bit tough. I've been playing Quest since the game came out, but it's been a while since I've dusted it off to play. I'd like some sort of general guide to help me determine when monsters should start/stop appearing on the monster tables, and how many monsters I should include (1D6, 2D6, etc).

Thanks for any and all suggestions!
31/Aug/2003, 3:10 pm Link to this post Send Email to Crifmer   Send PM to Crifmer AIM
 
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Re: Making Monster Tables


quote:

Crifmer wrote:
I've been trying to make tailor the random monster tables to my collection of miniatures, because I don't want to make cards for them, and I don't want to go out and buy all the monsters that are on the existing tables.



Whaaaaaaaaat you don�t want to go out and unload $30+ to get those Centaurs for your Level One Monster Table? Heck I used to play Undead and I still don�t own any Ghouls and they�re a 2d6 for Level One...

As far as the Event Cards go I do use them, that is when it is not a pre-mapped out dungeon with it�s own d6 random table. Then again I seem to have had a large surplus of blank cards to use.

Although being in a similar situation as you are I�ve been mucking about with my own random table because it�s to be a drag to roll for Monsters then either have to roll again or go down the list until a suitable foe is to be found.

quote:

Crifmer wrote:
How do you figure out what battle levels are suitable for each monster? I've been trying to eyeball it, but it's a bit tough.



Personally I�m not sure the person/s responsible for those tables did them sober. Then again maybe the BL1 1d3 Minotaurs was just a way to emphasize the mortality of the Warhammer world.

For the most part I started with ripping off some of the Monster ratios from the tables and adjusted them as I saw fit. Then use the Gold value from monsters I�ve created or swiped off the Net to figure out a suitable place for them in my tables. The �possible problem� I think is when the special rules for them might belay the threat level the Gold value implies.

Although Crifmer I�m certain there are other people who�ve but far more thought and they�re remaining sanity into figuring out Monster Tables.

�ol Bob just wanted to throw in his two coppers.

But getting back to the question on ratios (1d6, 2d6, etc). Rather than decipher the list just compare your Monsters to the others on the table directly. If you can find three other critters of similar Gold and special abilities then you�ve probably found a good ratio.
31/Aug/2003, 4:05 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rigmarole  
 
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Re: Making Monster Tables


quote:

Crifmer wrote:
It's great to see new support for Quest finally! I'd become discouraged when all the web sites I'd been visiting had last updates of 2001 or early 2002.


emoticon

quote:

I've been trying to make tailor the random monster tables to my collection of miniatures, because I don't want to make cards for them, and I don't want to go out and buy all the monsters that are on the existing tables.


(Sorry for my english). I am currently working on a monster database for the museum's website with the possibility to generate monsters cards dynamically. That way in a nearly future you can have cards for them


Last edited by Bruno, 31/Aug/2003, 4:48 pm


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Lord
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Re: Making Monster Tables


The gold value part is easy if you're converting a Monster from a warhammer Battle book or something. Simply multiply the points value by 10. That's all GW did in the original rules. (Except for Ghosts :b)

If you're converting rules for minis from another system it can be a bit more difficult, as you have to eyeball the gold value as well as the Challenge Rating (what Monster Table it should be on). One point where you totally use your judgement is the Wounds/Hitpoints of a creature.
  
  I found an easy way to do this from D&D, though. D&D uses a 1d8 hit dice to determine Monster Wounds. Warhammer Quest Monsters have less Wounds than D&D Monsters, so I'll take a D&D 7 Hit Die monster and roll 7 six-sided dice to determine it's Wounds for WHQ. A Monster's Manual is a good tool to have especially as more quality D&D miniatures are starting to come out. (They also have guides as to how many of a creature appear at a time.)

---
"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
3/Sep/2003, 2:01 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
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Re: Making Monster Tables


Basically, the best way to make Monster tables is with trial and error. Here is a list of how I made the first 4 Monster tables for Lustria.

1) First of all, go through the official Roleplay book for Warhammer Quest and add to your table any Monsters that are on their tables. So if they have 1D3 Minotuars, then you ad 1D3 minotaurs to your table as well. 1D3 minotaurs is ludicrously high at Battle-Level 1, but then by the time you get to Battle-Level 2, suddenly 3 Minotaurs isn't much of a challenge any more. The balance of the game is extremely shaky, but oh well.

2) Then I went through and made a list of all the monsters that I think would be found in Lustria that there are currently rules for officially, on this site, or any other monster rules I had collected.

3) Then came the hard bit. Figuring out if monsters were supposed to be on a particular battle level table. Generally, all rank and file troops should have about 1D6 to 2D6 of them. Goblins, orcs, skinks, saurus, etc, all had entires on battle level 1, and the number encountered went up as the Warriors went up in battle levels. Monsters with 2 attacks and 2 damage dice can be encountered on level 1, but not too many entires. Ogres, Minotaurs, etc. These sort of monsters usually have 1D3 of them on battle level 1, 3 of them on battle level 2, and then a combination of the different types on higher battle levels. Leaders and Champions and Magic Users should usually be avoided on level 1. Their stats may not be that much higher in some cases, but they usually have a magic weapon, which can make all the difference. You may want to whack in a Goblin Champion or a Pygmy Champion or something like that, but try to avoid too many. As your tables go up in battle levels, then you can start adding in the bigger lads. By battle level 4, it is impossible to get a group of weaker monsters without a shaman or a lord or a hero or whatever.

Once you make a battle level table, making the ones that come after that is a lot easier. If you have 2D6 Goblins on one entry, a battle level 2 entry could be 12 Goblins, or 1D6+6 Goblins and a Goblin Champion. Then you make sure you get rid of all the Monsters that are not going to provide a challenge for your warriors. Generally, all the 'vermin' type creatures should be off the tables by about level 3. No more rats, giant bats, giant spiders, etc, unless they are encountered with bigger versions of themselves. For example, 1D3 Gigantic Spiders, and 1D6 Giant Spidrs.

Then, once you have deleted some monsters, you will probably have space to add in the next lot. Go through the list of Monsters that you have said will be in your Monster table and check their stats. If they are slightly more powerful than a minotaur, mabye add them in as 1D3 on Battle-Level 2 or 3, and then take them up to 3 of them, and then start combining them with other entires later on.

As you can see, there isn't really a mathematical formula that I used for my tables, it was mainly just "hmm, yeah, he seems tough enough, lets whack 'im in!" but so far, our play testing of them hasnt revelaed any major doginess.

Hope this helps.

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 Re: Making Monster Tables


heh, I'll tell you what's making my life easier. I downloaded your Monster tables not just to use but to steal your formatting to make my own emoticon Thanks again!

---
"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
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Re: Making Monster Tables


Bravo Michael, well said.

I'll just add my two bits. First, convert the 12 cards to a level one table of 36 entries, 3 each. Rank them from easy (snotlings) to medium (orcs) to tough (minotaurs). Try playing with this table at least once. Unlike the cards, a monster may appear more than once. If one turn you roll 65 for 1D3 minotaurs, another you might roll 66 for 1D3 minotaurs. Avoid making entries that say "roll on the next level table."

Next, make a list of what miniatures you (and your mates) have and in what quantity. I have 8 ogre miniatures and my friend has some too. So, I replace the minotaurs on my #1 table with ogres. Now, if you decide to add monsters to the level one table, decide if they are stronger or weaker than orcs. If weaker, they can replace orcs or skaven entries. If stronger, they can replace minotaurs (or ogres). Don't put too many different monsters on the level one table, or you'll go up a battle level without encountering all of them.

A level two table is a little more difficult. Mine is pretty cluttered with different types: goblins, orcs, skaven, chaos warriors, dark elves, undead, etc. You can max out the quantities: 1D6 becomes 6, 2D6 becomes 12. You may want a Daemonic or Ethereal creature to penalize warriors that haven't got a magic weapon yet. In the 61-66 range I have 1D6 ogres and 1D3 Minotaurs. You'll want to use your level 1 figures, since most won't continue to level 3.

Finally, there should be an enemy magic-user on every level: Goblin Shaman, Orc Shaman, Skaven Warlock, etc. This could either be an entry on the table, or an enemy character card you put in the event deck.
4/Sep/2003, 7:05 am Link to this post Send Email to sudas  
 
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Re: Making Monster Tables


hehehehehe, thanks Basjam. Its good to see all my long sleepless nights and surreptitiously working on them at work when my boss wasn't looking has all paid off then, hehe. emoticon
4/Sep/2003, 9:31 am Link to this post Send Email to Michael  
 
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Re: Making Monster Tables


One more thing:

If you look at all the different monsters, you'll find there is quite a number that do 2D6+ST damage, with magic armor, magic item, and/or magic weapon. However there are few, if any, monsters that do 3D6+ST damage, straight. Maybe save some of your figures, and types to alter the Damage Dice.

I also like the suggestion someone made that a monster that scores a natural 6 for damage, automatically causes 1 wound, regardless of toughness & armor. But, how do you do this for 2D6, 3D6 damage?
5/Sep/2003, 5:44 am Link to this post Send Email to sudas  
 
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Re: Making Monster Tables


Yes, we have started using that idea as well, it was a cool idea. Stupid level 4 barbarians running around with 12 Toughness or some such nonsence while the rest of us poorly equiped warriors have to live our lives with a meagre 4 toughness. <grumble, mumble, moan>

If a Monster can not cause any Wounds damage at all to a Warrior, then that rule comes into play. So if a Monster with 3D6 damage dice can stll not hurt the Warrior at all, even if doing maximum damage, then the Monster will need a to hit score of 6, and he will cause 1 Wound on the Warrior. Hmm, come to think of it, mabye he should cause 1 Wound per damage dice that he has. hmmmmmm.... what do other people think?
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