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Lord
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Registered: 07-2003
Location: Philadelphia
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Revised WHQ Monster Tables


Hi guys, I'm posting to admit something embarrassing. This is ALL dork stuff. I own every single Warhammer Fantasy Battle Army Book, because I had it in mind to one day complete a WHQ version 2.0 on my own. I have scoffed at the notion in the past, but there's really no other words to describe the stoopid ambitions I have. The army books contain the info Andy Jones and others used to originally create the Monster Bestiary for Warhammer Quest. However, the information is now outdated. (I'm going to copy/paste my Orcs & Goblins spreadsheet as a separate post so you can see what I mean) I want the Goblins to Hate Dwarfs and Fear Elves, and have Animosity toward each other for example. I want the Orcs to brandish 'Uge Choppas, not namby-pamby swords!

So I set about creating my own Bestiary and assigning Challenge Ratings to EVERY creature in the Battle game, so that I could then develop my own Monster Tables for each environment and Race in the world. My goal was to first put everything grouped by race into a single database, and then put information into Word using Andrew Brockhouse's excellent 1d100 Monster template. I now realize that I bit off far more than I can chew. The Brockhouse nutters have only completed 3 or 4 environments and GW only finished Orcs & Undead and hinted at Skaven before calling it quits. What made me think I could succeed (with limited time at that?)?

If my spreadsheet copies correctly you'll see that I was trying to lay the groundwork for separate encounters depending on how each Monster group is armed and armored. For example, in the Battle game, an Orc with Light armor costs 2 points more than an unarmored Orc; so I wanted some naked Orcs like in the basic game and I wanted Orcs to show up protected by 2 points of Armor and netting their killer 90 gold each. Since some of my Wizard classes use Psychology, I started adding the Leadership stat from the Battle game and the WP stat from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay... Since I use saving throws I'll have to eventually add them as well.

The trouble came when I realized that all the work I was planning on doing will work great for Battle-level 1 and maybe 2 adventures, but after that everything will go to hell. See, I want to be able to have random encounters in real time, and not have to learn to program some complicated script, and only a computer will be able to randomly produce the kind of encounters I'm dreaming! The real trouble is going to be with champions and their magic items and spellcasters.

If anyone has paid attention to the Treasure and Item rules I've leaked to the Quest Museum, you'd see that I'm also laying groundwork for all kinds of race and region-specific Magic Items to be used in the game, I have them labeled Treasure if they are meant for Warriors to find and Items if they are meant for Monsters to use. Some of the Items will be lootable by Warriors and some won't. But I think that it's now just too much to be handled when randomly playing WHQ and that's something I HATE to admit. (And I'm so sick about rolling on charts that I design my games Peter Haresnape-style! emoticon MORE CHARTS, BIGGER, BETTER, ETC. )

So, I'm now trying to revamp my design strategy. My new idea is to add up the Gold awarded for each encounter in the official rules (min to max) and use that as a challenge rating instead of how many of a certain creature appear. Then before I run a game, I'll just pick a quest, see where it is, find out who the enemy(s) are, and find out the Challenge Rating of the party if possible. Then I'll just have to create a quick Bestiary for that specific adventure by sitting down with the relevant Army book or other resource and roll 12 encounters ahead of time which I'll then have all info ready for when a Monster card is rolled in game. The reason I've never done this prep work before is that I like to be as surprised as my players. The advantage is that I'll have time to name my Monsters, making them more like NPCs, as well as saving time figuring out what spells they know (I'm disregarding the old spellcasting system and converting to the newer Mordheim/WFB model) and what Magic Items they have which I used to do on the fly.

The only thing is, I feel sorta sad because I really thought it would be cool to have 100 1d100 charts (10 for each race), and then have Treasure, Item, and Spellcasting charts for each Monster environment. So I'm just posting all this hoping someone will at least be entertained, but also wondering what other ideas there are for compiling all this information into a usable format...

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"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
10/Feb/2005, 10:17 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
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Lord
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posticon Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


Crap, I can't post my sample chart - It's in Excel and I'm too illiterate to know how stick a whole chart in here... Suffice to say that, for example, instead of 2d6 Orcs showing up and then you roll to see whether they have Bows or Swords, I had as possibilities:

1) generic Orcs from the basic game
2) Orc Boyz (slightly tougher from WFB)
3) Dual Wielding Orc Boyz
4) Orc Boyz with Spears
5) Orc Boyz with Choppas and Shields
6) Orc Arrer Boyz
7) Orc Arrer Boyz with Light Armor

All these would be possible encounters at low level, so you can just imagine how anal I'd have to be to continue on this track when it comes to designing a BL 7 Orc & Goblin Table...

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"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
10/Feb/2005, 10:26 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


That's quite am ambitious project you've started there. And one which when finished will be quite an achievement and I'm sure very enjoyable to use in the game!

I think everyone is working on their own separate version of WQ version 2.0! When they're finally released we'll have 10 different versions! emoticon

Although I do think you may have to have to use some sort of program to generate Monsters for you, otherwise you'll end up with tables all over the place. Roll D1000 for different Monster variations! Actually, I love rolling on tables, but there's still a limit!

The trouble with doing anything like this is that it takes up way too much time. Not that there's anything better than sitting down thinking of new WQ rules though! emoticon

I started a while ago improving all my Monster tables as well. No to the extent that you're doing though, but I couldn't figure out why GW left out some of the Monsters from the appropriate armies. So I bought all the relevant WHFB army books (not that I play WHFB, but they are interesting to read all the background info - when they have it). My intention was to convert all the new monsters/races into use for WQ. I'm a bit behind though. I need to update the Lizardmen, and then I need to buy the Beastman army book and also Ogre Kingdoms. Not to mention finally getting around to update the Skaven rules that aren't on my website.

Our D100 Monster tables, which were done by my brother, Michael, took a long time to do because he had to make sure they were well balanced and had a fair representation of all Monsters that would be in the appropriate land. And of course, it's almost impossible to test things like that because you're not likely to use all 100 entries in a game (although some entries are duplicated but you know what I mean.)

And it's more fun to actually write rules knowing that they will be used. For example, to continue on with the Monster tables past level 4 will take quite a huge amount of time, and then possibly only be used once or twice, since most games we play are around the lower battle levels. So everyone would rather spend time making rules, quests etc that we will use in the next game, rather than something that we might use in a few months or years time...

I bought the D&D Oriental Adventures book a few years ago, for background material, with the intention of writing rules for WQ adventures in Nippon and Cathay, but I haven't even started yet! It's the whole idea of having to come up with D100 Hazards, D100 Settlement events and D100 Dungeon events - it's very daunting! We're still trying to come up with a D100 Captain's Table to expand upon the D6 table that was in White Dwarf for Lost Kingdoms. Hmm, actually I just checked and we have only 1 entry to go!

And now that the new Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay edition is being released, I'll be buying that to see what can be converted for WQ. And I'm sure it will be a very interesting read too! I don't have any intention to play it though!

Talking about being anal, I'm sure no one else is as anal as us. We try to make sure everything we write has the same formatting of important words as the original WQ rulebook. eg. Attacks, Wounds, Monsters, 1D6 etc. We can't write them with lowercase letters like attacks, monsters, 1d6. Now that's what I call anal!

Anyhow... I think I might have deviated from the topic at hand - the bestiary project! Good luck! I'm sure you will finish it, it will just take time, that's all.
10/Feb/2005, 4:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to Andrew MSN
 
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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


With Peter, 2 months ago we begun to work on a second version but the PBEM took my time. He begins to work on character creation. By the way I have a doc over 4 mo with all the rules except bestiary and treasures. This doc have some my remarks. I can send you but I need your email.
By the way, we have a forum and can discuss chapter by chapter and revised many stuffs. This way Warhammer Quest will have its ruling books.

Last edited by Bruno, 10/Feb/2005, 6:24 pm


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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


BassJam- have I got this right; you now roll/pick cards to determine the gold/points value of your assailent, then figure out exactly what's attacking you? I like this idea...

By the by, I was thinking about magic a little while ago. I'm not sure what you have in mind, but I was thinking that Monster Magic could be divided into three catagories; Long Range, Hand-to-Hand and Defensive. They would use the first two spell lists in the appropriate context, and the third when below 50% wounds. It probably requires at least 18 spells per magic type.

As for being a Grammer Fascist, I am definitly in that camp. One of my aliases is Vocabulon; Punctuation Man! Hey Andrew, I guess you could say you were a real case-sensitive guy!
(ohh, that's a bad joke!)
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10/Feb/2005, 6:44 pm Link to this post Send Email to thecustodian   Send PM to thecustodian
 
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Lord
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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


to Andrew - I'm so bad I can't talk about Monsters or Warriors in posts without capitalizing :b And I know exactly how much work all those tables took! But I didn't know there was a new WFRP coming out - ahhhh... I also dislike the game, but I DO like the atmosphere, the flavor text is less dumbed-down than the WHQ rulebooks. Finally, the idea of writing rules only for Monsters that may turn up in the next adventure makes is what I may have to settle for.

to Peter - no, to illustrate my new idea look at the first Monster table on page 117. A roll of 41 is an easy 6-12 Snotlings encounter, which would net the party anywhere from 60 to 120 Gold depending on how many Snots are rolled. An equivalent challenge converted from WFB could be 3-6 Night Goblin Archers (20G each) or 2-4 Night Goblins with Spears (30G each).

A roll of 65 on the same table means 1-3 Minotaurs, netting the party 440 to 1320 Gold (or death :b ). An equivalent challenge to THAT could be a Savage Orc Shaman with Tattoos (670 Gold) accompanied by 1d6+1 Dual-Wielding Savage Orcs (90 gold each)

Then use same formula to make Monster Table for each Army book out there, rinse, repeat. The point is an easy way to copy the difficulty level that already exists in game. My old way was trying to copy the kind of Challenge Ratings used in the new D&D editions, but there is obviously a range of difficulties built into the encounters and I'm trying to keep things as universal as possible... (i.e. not colored just by my whims)


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"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
11/Feb/2005, 10:24 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


In mysql and php, we can made a table generator

It'll be easy to manage three types of challenge.
Easy
Medium
Hard > like minotaurs in BL1

Then with a database we enter our settings like orc and monsters, the database will generate the table

As the result is online, it'll be easy to balance it

What do you think?

Last edited by Bruno, 11/Feb/2005, 6:58 pm


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Lord
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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


It's a great idea - for my home games, I don't play next to the PC, so I'm having to learn restraint :b

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"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
12/Feb/2005, 10:08 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
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Re: Revised WHQ Monster Tables


Of course you can print the table. When the PBEM is finished, I'll work on new table

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Bruno
14/Feb/2005, 6:23 pm Link to this post Send PM to Bruno
 


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