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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


Dungeon of Blood!? Bah! I've never managed to get through that game. Andrew must have rigged it so the monsters always win, hehe emoticon

Anyway, since there's all this talk of making computer games, I thought I'd throw my two cents into the fray. For the last 6 months or so, Iv'e been working on a Warhammer Quest Computer game as well! Now we'll have hundreds, hehe. I've been trying to program a random dungeon generator and to get that finished before I mention anything on the internet or put up screen shots. It allows for any combination of rooms and coridoors from the original board sections, but its programmed to "plug and play" with any other board sections that you want to whack in. All you have to do is drop the graphic into the program, enter a few details like where doors can be positioned, how many exits there can be, etc, and then run the program and it picks up the new room and uses it in its dungeon generaion. At the moment, its not very user friendly, but in the long run I plan to make interfaces where anyone can get a new board section and select options from drop down menus and away they go!

For the 7 by 7 squares fitting in the screen at once, I dont really think there's a problem if you can't see the entire board section in the window at once. If that was your goal, to allow for every single board section that is curently in existence to be seen in full, you'd have to allow for crazyly huge ones like the Pygmy prayer chamber and the Great Hall and then you'd have tiny little squares 10 by 10 pixels emoticon. As long as you can scroll from side to side to see the bits of action that you need to, it's all good.

Im probably boring everyone else here, so apologies guys and gals in advance. Septimus, heres a basic method that I followed to generate a random dungeon:

1) Pick 6 board sections at random (making sure none were duplicated unless they are
allowed, such as coridoors)

2) Pick another 6 boad sections and chuck in a random objective room

3) Place the first board section in the middle of the board, rotate it randomly and chuck a dungeon entrance door on, and any exit doors.

4) Attach the next room in the list, add any random doors, etc.

5) Once the dungeon has been finished, go back and check to see if there is any illegal placement of boards (ie, if there are any overlapping) If there is, go back and create another dungeon. And keep doing this until you get a complete dungeon. For this reason, a "please wait, loading" text message is ultra handy, even though you usually only have to wait a second or two at the most.

6) If the dungeon is a legal one, then centre it on the screen.

Easy as pie!

I used this method to create a minimap which in turn will be used as a template to create the main dungeon, scroll limitations, etc etc etc. (eventually...)

With t-junctions, the program finishes off one path, and then it comes back to finish off the next. I forgot to mention that if you get a t-junction as one of your random rooms, it will automatically divide up the remainding cards for you and put some on one path, and some on the other path.

Hope it helps, Septimus, and Im more than happy to talk about other aspects of what you want to do, as long as we don't bore everyone. Mabye we can email each other about technical stuff in the future or something. By the way, I'm using Macromedia Director to do all the programming and Macromedia Flash do draw all the graphics for it, of which I've done a fair amount of the monsters for Battle-Level 1, and all the board sections complete with animations for the Fountain of Light and the Idol Chamber. I, too, have grand master plans for the future. Hopefully, if I can figure out anything about networking and IP address and all that technical hoohar, Im going to try and make it multiplayer as well, so people can log into a server and see if other players are there waiting for a game and then they can go off adventuring together. I know, I know, its a dream, but Im hoping to get there one day emoticon

Last edited by Andrew (Local user), 8/Jul/2004, 12:55 pm
8/Jul/2004, 12:17 pm Link to this post Send Email to Michael  
 
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


Thanks for the idea on making a random dungeon. At the moment I'm placing the start (stairway) along a centre edge and then adding a random section one at a time after checking if it'll fit. It'd simplify it a lot if I just let it go nuts and then check if it's legal.
One thing I can't figure out is how you're checking if there's an overlap after the dungeon is made. So far I have three 2-dimensional arrays storing information; one for floor tiles, one for items laying around and one for the models. Using this method, building the entire dungeon first would change the settings in the tile array so it would not be possible to know if two tiles are overlapping or just running side-by-side.
Unless I keep rebuilding the dungeon until there's at least a one tile gap between sections (if it's not a doorway)... I guess I'll have to work on it and see.

'Plug-in' support for extra board sections, custom characters/monsters/treasure is also a good idea, I'm still trying to figure out a (simple) method of doing this though emoticon
I've started on an editor to add characters, monsters, items and spells, but I'm not going to worry too much about that until the time comes that I'll need it.

Animation and multiplay are still a long way off for me, content over eye-candy I always say. Viva la DOS! I have a friend of mine doing up some images for characters & monsters. Hopefully he won't get bored of it too soon.

I'm still a very novice programmer, so there's probably a thousand better ways I could have done things so far or could do things in future. Oh well, as long as it works.

It's too bad I'd never even heard of Director (language = Lingo?) before reading your post, we coulda bin pardners. Unless you know pascal (like everyone should emoticon)...
As it is, I think it would do us both good to get some form of correspondance going, and I'm sure that every other user of this forum is as excitedly interested in programming as we are :cool:

The only problem I can see with the limited 7x7 tile view is when you want to line up loooong range shots. I don't really like not being able to see hunter and hunted on the same screen. Maybe I'll whack in zooming or something... a bit later.

I'd love to see what you have so far by the way. Maybe I can flog a few more ideas off you (I think I already said I'm crap at interfaces).
8/Jul/2004, 8:21 pm Link to this post Send PM to Septimus
 
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


Yes, actually, I would have prefered to have been pardners as well. This town ain't big enough for the two of us! emoticon Seriously though, I think one thing we have to do is make sure our games are both different enough to hopefully inspire people to play both of them. Bruno's idea of turning it into a Play By Email game sounds awsome! So if people want to play Quest via email like they are doing at the moment on the message board, they can do that for some quick, fun, game play. If they want to go online with people, or have a single player game or a game where everyone's gathered around the computer at once, then that too should be an option for them. And if people think the entire idea of playing Warhammer Quest on a computer defeats the purpose of playing Quest, then they can spit in our general directions and not play any.

Lingo is awsome! It's less powerful than a proper programming language like Pascal or C, but it makes up for the fact that it is a multimedia programming language, therefore you can easily interact with graphics and sounds and movies and stuff. Its very "what you see if what you get" type of thing. Drag an image onto the screen, and the start programming away on it. Very cool! Or geeky! Or whatever! emoticon PS - I dont know Pascal. I know C a bit.... Kind of... Well not really, but I looked at the first page of a C book once.

For the collision detection thing, this is how I did it. I take the first room on the board. If any board section besides the previous or the next is physically touching the board section, then it shouldn't be, therefore it's illegal. With t-junctions, it gets a bit tricker and you have to take into account that the t-junction can have additional board sections touching it. I found the t-juntion the hardest thing to program. With lingo, because everything is actually on the stage, you can physically detect if objects are overlapping, therefore it made collision detection rather easy. Well, possible, anyway. I have no idea how you can do it using arrays... Sorry emoticon

Hmmm, thats a good point about the shooting at long range. Zooming probably isn't the answer though, since then it gets tricky with making sure the graphics look good at all sizes.

I don't think I even used computers when DOS was around. I'm a very non computer literate person, actually. Im terrible at maths, and have a good idea for graphics and layout and stuff. I really have no idea why I'm a programmer for a living, I'm really rather crap at all programmer related things except the actual programming, hehehe. That's why I like to work with graphics as well as code. It helps with visulising things. Code bores me when it's just sitting there on the screen looking all, well, codey. emoticon
9/Jul/2004, 10:06 am Link to this post Send Email to Michael  
 
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


I have to admit, you've got me curious about Lingo now. I've had a quick poke around and it looks somewhat like a simplified mix of turbo pascal and object pascal, with some of it's own elemants thrown in. The Director/Lingo combination sounds like my kind of programming method too, since games are just multimedia productions.

But there's just something I like about having screens and screens of code (with some designed elements), pushing F9 and then suddenly having screens and screens of pictures.

I figured that the junctions would be the hardest to implement, but once I've figured out how I'm going to add sections it should be easier. Possibly leading to an option to allow multiple exits to standard rooms and corridors.

If you don't mind me picking your brain a little more, could you give me some insight into how you allowed additional board sections to be added? It would be simple to just scan the directory containing the pictures, get the width/heigh of each picture and divide up the tiles, but how do you handle entry/exit locations and whether an area of the picture is walkable or not (like the black bits of the corner or the tomb/fountain/chasm in the relevant objective rooms), and any specific events that will happen on the new board section.
I don't expect to have this feature for a long time yet, probably after magic, but it would be food for thought until I get there.

As for zooming, the 64x64 tiles are fairly high quality and still look repectable when drawn at 32x32. So changing from 7x7 tiles to 14x14 tiles wouldn't make much difference to those. But you do have a point with items, characters and monsters... They may look a little bit tacky if the pixels get bunched too much. I might make up a second set of basic pictures (or maybe just words/letters) for a quick zoom out when you want it. If you want more detail you'll have to zoom back in again.

I've always preferred pen and paper to PC and keyboard, programming is and always will be just a hobby for me.
9/Jul/2004, 10:24 pm Link to this post Send PM to Septimus
 
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


I too am making a Warhammer Quest computer game! we really will have hundreds emoticon



Me and four others are at the moment writing the engine for the game, using C and Ogre.
It is progressing slowly but steadily.



Back in 1998 I actually finished making a warhammer quest computer game, although the interface is really horrible... not like the fancy 3D one we are working on now emoticon
If you would like to play it anyway, go to:
[sign in to see URL]
then click on the games button on the left, then scroll down until you find the Qbasic Games Package


In 2001 i tried to make another version of it in Macromedia Flash... but due to a harddrive crash i lost the source code emoticon I think you can find a prototype of it somewhere here:
[sign in to see URL]



Good luck with your games! I look forward to playing them when they are done.
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


Typical! Just like buses! You wait around for years for a Warhammer Quest computer game, and then three turn up at once!
Although I have played on both DoB and Mikeinside's game. They both have a certain charm.
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


My word! It's on for young and old! We should form a union.
13/Jul/2004, 9:36 am Link to this post Send Email to Michael  
 
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


Hahah yeah. I don't even know how I got back around to WHQ at all, I haven't played it in about 10 years. Well, maybe not quite that long ago, but not far off it.

As for a union, that's a great idea. If only we weren't coding our games in 3 completely different languages :bad:

I can't really see how we'd be much good to each other. More's the pity really, it'd be great to get a team going (as mikeinside has done) and just pour it all into one great game. Maybe something approaching commercial quality, but keeping it free of course.
14/Jul/2004, 9:49 am Link to this post Send PM to Septimus
 
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


Just to throw my hat into the ring we two are making a WHQ computer game in drumroll [sign in to see URL] and DirectX 9.0 how many more possibilities can there be? FORTRAN, Prolog Perl etc... pooling together is an excellent idea anyone want to suggest a language? Director would be great but I dont have 1000 dollars to buy a commercial version.

Cheers,
Andrew
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Re: Another WHQ computer game.


I've said this before, but programmers should check out [sign in to see URL] to see a great boardgame implementation. Robo Rally which is a complicated boardgame, was converted into a java game that you can play in your web browser. I play there all the time (under the name Konstruct) and would love it if there was a WHQ equivalent hosted that way. The format works excellently...

---
"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
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