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BassJam Profile
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Lord

Registered: 07-2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 539
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Re: Deathblow


I believe Sudden Real is correct, and allow Warriors to do 360-degree Deathblows IF they can. If there is a corner or other Warrior, or wounded Monster killed, that stops the blow, so players have to be careful where they start and what direction they go.

Empty squares are just fine in my game though. After all, the rule is really about surviving the first couple levels. Deathblows don't happen against Mummies.

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"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
2/Apr/2006, 3:38 pm Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
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Re: Deathblow


In my above example three replies up (I think), I would think that a death-blow swing might be allowed to go counter-clockwise, but obviously NOT clockwise, since the corner would be in the way of the swing. Yet, could the corner prevent that swing even though it is a counter-clockwise swing?

Yet, I still wonder: if this could be allowed, then should a normal diagonal attack be allowed to begin with? I mean around -- or across -- the corner.

I recently had a Trollslayer in this very position and the GM allowed me to attack. I felt kinda funny reaching over my comrade's shoulder and around the corner at the same time to try to cleave a monster with my rune axe. But, nevertheless I got two kills (a pink & a blue with an extra attack from a Sigmar blessing!) emoticon

Note: This is not a criticism of the GM. I am just trying to sort out and crystalize the Death-blow issue for my own Old Warrior Rules. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 3/Apr/2006, 1:50 am


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Old Warrior

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3/Apr/2006, 1:49 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
BassJam Profile
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Lord

Registered: 07-2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 539
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Re: Deathblow


I didn't respond to that example, but I don't get how you'd have a Deathblow situation with only 1 Monster. Assuming there are more in the picture, I would let you swing counter-clockwise.

In my games I use the rule to represent momentum, rather than a SINGLE blow. Thus, another Warrior or corner break up the momentum as you don't want your favorite axe buried in a friend's skull.

Also in my games, we DO consider the corners as strategic points. Say there are Monsters on the board, both Monsters and Warriors can attack around a corner, but the movement can get quite difficult as we don't move diagonally from, say, the M to the W in your example. Also, with missile weapons, a Warrior can shoot around a cornner with relative safety.


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"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
3/Apr/2006, 9:43 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
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Re: Deathblow


Thanks Bassjam for pointing out the flaw in my example. I have repaired it I think. emoticon

Also, Bassjam, I like your idea of "momentum"; it seems to make more sense to me, since each monster requires another "to hit" roll involving WS.

Is it safe for me to assume that in your games the diag. adj. across a corner warrior and monster (as in my example) are not necessarily pinned by each other?

ALso, I think you are implying a "to hit" penalty for a melee attack around the corner(?).

I trust this is still sort of on topic, because it would seem that this could have some influence on Bruno's coding of the game.

Anyway, I am just terribly into details. Couple that with my curiosity and I find others' input quite interesting.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 6/Apr/2006, 1:57 pm


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Old Warrior

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6/Apr/2006, 6:56 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
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Re: Deathblow


Bruno, just to clarify:

When you say,

quote:

In advanced rules, let's say just kill a monster.



do you mean that a death-blow will NOT require that it is the first attack of that particular warrior against that specific monster in the current turn?

Whether that will be true or not in WQ, I will likely have no need of a death-blow rule at all in WQ when the coding is completed. This is just an observation.

AND, a GM's job in WQ is going to be a lot easier it seems with all (or most) of the warriors' attacks & movement being handled by the server(s).

A side note: Are you going to be able to code all the special attack-related skills & weapons effects, like the Trollslayer's skill, Blades of Death skill, Dance of Death and special swords of Wardancer, a warhammer's extra D6 DD on 6 to hit, and etc...? I am just curious, since I am enamoured with all the details of how things work. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 6/Apr/2006, 11:29 am


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Old Warrior

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6/Apr/2006, 7:11 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
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Re: Deathblow


[Edited to slim it down. Now, my rule (all in green) is shorter than the original even including two clarifications. emoticon]

Sorry to reply so much on this issue, but I have been wrestling with a final ruling on this for my own GMed games and solo games. I don't want to be wishy-washy, bouncing back and forth on the issue.

Just as a reminder (for accurate reference), I quote only a small section from the original Death-blow rule from the Rule Book:

quote:

If there is another Monster standing in an adjacent square to the Warrior's initial target, and that is still within the range of his attack, the swing of his blade may catch it too... If this Monster is also killed with a single blow, the blow carries on round in the same direction to the next Monster, and so on.



I put the words in bold that I think some have missed or forgotten. I just think it important that we realize what the actual rule says so that we know how we are changing it. In fact, I am going to go contrary to both of these aspects of the original rule.

As for me, here is the wording of my final (hopefully so) death-blow rule for all my games (quoted from my latest Old Warrior Rules revision):

quote:

Any attack with a melee weapon that kills a monster may result in a death-blow on the next monster adjacent to the warrior. If that monster is also killed, then the attack may proceed to the next available monster (adjacent to warrior), and so on, until it is stopped by running out of monsters, by failing to hit a monster, by another warrior, or by a solid object (such as a wall).

Two points of clarification:

1. Monsters diagonally adjacent to the attacking warrior may be hit by a death-blow. Empty spaces do NOT prevent a death-blow.

2. ANY melee weapon may be used to death-blow, unless the weapon's description or the warrior's rules state otherwise. I allow a death-blow with "fight in ranks" weapons. For instance, a spear may kill a monster adjacent to the warrior AND proceed to the monster directly behind it. I will make a judgment on other such weapons during gameplay.



I know, this perhaps sounds too easy on the warriors, but to me it makes the most sense, because it seems to me that a wounded monster has less ability to stop a death-blow than a monster on full wounds. Also, I think this is probably the type of death-blow we will end up having in Webquest once Bruno gets all the coding done for the server-managed warrior attacks.

If things get a little too easy for the warriors, I as GM can always add more and/or more difficult monsters. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 10/Apr/2006, 4:06 am


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Old Warrior

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9/Apr/2006, 2:21 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Sudden Real Profile
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Lord

Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 104
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Re: Deathblow


Wow, lots of words... why not simply replace "adjacent square to the Warrior's initial target" with "adjacent square to the Warrior" and add "the Deathblow stops when the Warrior fails to kill a monster or when he reaches an obstacle (like a wall or another Warrior)"?

I must say, I don't really like allowing Deathblows with weapons that allow you to fight in ranks. You usually don't cleave with weapons like that, but stab forward (except maybe the halberd, but I'll leave that for other people to discuss). Maybe just allow a Deathblow in a straight line to the maximum of the ranks allowed?
9/Apr/2006, 4:44 pm Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
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Re: Deathblow


Sudden Real, I agree that it seemed a bit much -- wordy. I have boiled it down some. I was trying to address several issues that have come up in my games.

Your idea on the fight in ranks weapons is basically what I intend, a follow through attack for some like spears in a straight line (monster killed, then the one behind within range may get hit). For a Halberd, I would probably allow either a sweeping motion clockwise or counter-clockwise (but only at adjacent or maximum range NOT both), OR a straight forward attack (like the spear).

Last edited by OldWarrior, 10/Apr/2006, 4:30 am


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Old Warrior

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9/Apr/2006, 4:59 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Zubbus Profile
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Novice

Registered: 05-2006
Posts: 8
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posticon Re: Deathblow


I can't find anything in the rules that says empty space blocks death blows, or that says diagonal is not adjacent.
1/May/2006, 4:29 pm Link to this post Send Email to Zubbus   Send PM to Zubbus
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
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Re: Deathblow


In response to Zubbus this quote is from the death-blow rule in the Rulebook:

"If there is another Monster standing in an adjacent square to the Warrior's initial target"

The "initial target" here would be a monster. This is adjacent to the monster, and I assume that adjacent to the warrior is implied also (it states within the warrior's attack range), so both would need to be true in the original rules to my understanding.

You are absolutely right that the Rulebook does NOT disqualify a target that is diagonally adjacent; but, many players apparently have disqualified them.

I myself have found it necessary to specify that a monster diagonally adjacent to the monster just killed qualifies as a death-blow target, because so many people don't seem to think that they are adjacent for this purpose.

I now allow a death-blow even in the following illustration between any of the three monsters or even including them all no matter which one is the intial target (though it goes beyond the original rules):

MXM
XWX
XMX

M = monster
X = empty space
W = warrior

These three monsters (in illustration are definitely NOT adjacent to each other, though they are adjacent to the warrior.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 2/May/2006, 6:47 am


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Old Warrior

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2/May/2006, 6:44 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 


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