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thecustodian Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2003
Location: The Temple
Posts: 809
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Hmm, there might be a problem with having runes and the like as you suggested- they occupy a very specific place in the Warhammer World. I tried to do something similar some time back but found myself defeated by the fluff (sort of).
I do think it might be better for the warriors to have more weapons available. Some warriors do rely on having a choice of axes. Say a Trollslayer with the ambidextrous option might desire to have a big, twohanded axe, and the odd hammer or throwing axe as well. That's well over his limit.
I assume that he'd be able to keep most of his stuff with his mule, and select before each adventure- nothing wrong with that. Perhaps, though, we ought to focus more on encumbrance than slots?
9/May/2005, 9:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to thecustodian   Send PM to thecustodian
 
Boyinleaves Profile
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Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Yeah, I agree about the runes, although there is slight precedent in the rules as they stand.

I actually saw some rules for encubrance in one of the house rules faqs a while back and used them in my games, I think they recommended a total of 4 slots for melee weapons, with 2 handed weapons taking up two slots, and that seemed to work ok. That way, warriors would have a backup or alternative weapon. However, with the stuff Bruno et al. are proposing, a warrior's backup weapons would be his daggers.

Leaving stuff behind before an adventure is fine, but it doesn't take into account the plethora of treasure that is 'use once per adventure', that's my only quibble. A warrior wearing only two rings would have to make a serious decision between something that granted a permanent bonus, or an effect like a time freeze ring, extremely useful but limited.

I don't really know, but maybe all 'use once per adventure' items, like rings, could be lumped together and used anytime, regardless of what permanent effect items were being worn?
9/May/2005, 10:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
thecustodian Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2003
Location: The Temple
Posts: 809
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Yeah... I guess I see your point.

Re rings, I don't wish to grouse, but I still think that eight, as allowed by the original rules, is a fair enough number; if only because most rings are one use per. Perhaps we should say rings, amulets and the like?

Cheers
9/May/2005, 10:14 pm Link to this post Send Email to thecustodian   Send PM to thecustodian
 
Black Drazon Profile
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Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Personally, I don't see the point of one-use items. Technically, the only reason you wouldn't be able to use an item more than once is if it was daemonic in nature and you didn't want to piss the bugger off. Though I advise against it, I'd just like to point out that the Frostblade was and is a continual use item in WHFB.

I can see the advantage of holding a reserve weapon or two on one's back, but I really don't think 4 is the right number. The power of the Frostblade is such that the warrior should have to cast aside the chance of that high-Toughness monster would come and face the wrath of the Hero Sword, or simply to have a good replacement for your Gromril Blade should you be disarmed.

That's just my opinion.
10/May/2005, 7:01 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Boyinleaves Profile
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Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Personally, for me it depends on whether or not you think warriors should be able to carry additional rings as well as the ones they are wearing. Of course, if the treasure rules are changed, there might not be any problem anyway, as the chances of even obtaining a ring could be very small.

In the interests of game balance, it would be absurd to allow most of the current 'use once per adventure' items to be used multiple times in the same adventure. It could be abused so badly. If there is to be any challenge to certain fights, there needs to be some restriction on how these items are used.

However, a better way of doing things might be to make invisibility rings and time freeze rings and such disintegrate after being used a certain number of times. This would give the players more incentive to only use them when absolutely needed, and also prevent them from obtaining copious amounts of powerful items, as the things they do use eventually become worthless.

I don't really know how to handle something like the Frostblade. Anyone else?
11/May/2005, 1:41 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Boyinleaves Profile
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Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


EDIT - Whoops

Last edited by Boyinleaves, 12/May/2005, 11:52 am
11/May/2005, 1:41 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Black Drazon Profile
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Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Boyinleaves, you have again managed to misread my enitire post. The sentence about the Frostblade specifically says, and I quote:

"Though I advise against it"

The suggestion I gave was that things should stay the way they are, as a 1-use items takes up the space occupied by a multiple use item, so the warrior is automatically punished.
12/May/2005, 3:47 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
golembane Profile
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Lord

Registered: 08-2004
Posts: 100
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


In all honesty does rings such as Time freeze ring fit the Warhammer world fluff?

Simple answer is no.

Resurrection and time freeze are two of the most challenging things that can come forth to a mage. Only mage I'd possibly even think would be powerful enough to make NUMEROUS rings of this type and potency is Teclis or a Chaos deamonprince of Tzeench...

So do you think Teclis would have time to focus so much magical power into a ring and be willing to give said ring away to be lost? Now do you really want to be using a ring thats created by the hands of a deamon? I know I'd stay away from it at all possible.

If you look at the Elven Ranger as it stands. He has the warcrown of Tiranoc. It freezes time but theres a good reason to it. It was created during the highest point of magic knowledge for the high elves. Before Caledor and the other mages casted the vortex.

Does having multiple magical items within close range of each other fit the warhammer fluff?

Simple answer is no.

If you look at the special characters in the warhammer world, they rarely carry more then one magic item at a time. Usually the items are crafted and just have special properties. Take Tyrion for example. He's one of the most feared mêlée capable special characters in the fantasy universe at this time. His armor was all crafted by the hands of a god. His horse is a special breed. He only carries one magic item and that is the Sunfang.

Imrik the last of the dragon princes has the same thing going to for him. His armor is merely a crafted item with special capabilities but not magical. His only magical item is his lance(forgot the name of it).

GW has done a pretty good job and noting that weapons and armors are crafted with special properties(Light weight metal so wearer can always strike first or whatever) and WHQ should really look to keep with this fluff since at it's heart the game is still a Warhammer game.

Remember something about magic items. They usually aren't happy about being used and usually have a high cost ingrained with them. The could have a bloodthirsty deamon trapped inside, or the soul of or overzealous paladine who whispers words of hate of other races and slowly drives the warrior insane, etc.

Problem is that Treasure system as it is now gives so many chances to have blatant magical items, and no draw back. Really magic items should be very very rare.

Items like the hammer of Sigmar... I can pretty much promise you would not be lost for very long until you have a good chunk of the empire and dwarven forces descending upon every dungeon and cave in the old world searching for it. Do you think the Elves of Loren would let one of their prized bows of Loren stay lost for ages?

Runes are either made by wanna-be human rune smiths and are of less potency(but still follows the same rules) of the dwarven runes. We have rules how the runes react to each other. Sometimes all the runes refuse to work, while other times the only the most potent rune in the general area will work.

Bit of a tangent, I've been gone for a bit so might be merging alot of topics into this one. Pretty much my point is simply look at what GW has given to us now as fluff and lets stick with it.
12/May/2005, 6:46 am Link to this post Send Email to golembane   Send PM to golembane
 
Boyinleaves Profile
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Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Excellent post Golembane. So in other words...an entire revision of all the treasure in WHQ is necessary?

Maybe we then need a system where the weapons and armour obtained in adventure are beneficial because of the material they are made from or the design, rather than from any magical properties?

If we revise the treasure rules we then need to strike a balance between how difficult the monsters are, how much equipment the warriors obtain, and how powerful that equipment is. I know if my players didn't have access to a lot of the magical items, like time freeze rings as they stand, they would have an impossible time trying to kill a lot of the monsters at their current difficulty levels.

12/May/2005, 11:51 am Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
golembane Profile
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Lord

Registered: 08-2004
Posts: 100
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Starting The Game


Honestly I do think the treasure system needs an overhaul.

Look at warhammer 6th edition and what GW did for special characters. The only race that can get alot of magical items are the high elves.

Most other races get expensive items with only 100 points to spend.

GW is really aiming to put skill>items and thats what makes a hero a hero.

Any baffoon can pick up a hydra sword and strike out 2-6(or whatever the max is), but only a hero can take a sword and shield from the city and be able to stand toe to toe with the worst chaos can throw at them.

Thing I would do is simply make magic items far more rare and remove some of the items that blatently just doesn't make sense to be there.

The Hammer of Sigmar, like I said before, wouldn't stay gone for very long before the Empire sends some of their best to find it. While an excellent basis for a quest, do you seriously think they are going to let the heroes walk around with it forever?

As for the treasure system itself... Well the problem is that items are to readily available except arrows. Think of how many magic shield,swords,great swords, and amulets the heroes come across. All that needs to be done is simply make more mundane items as loot. Plus we can increase the gold drops. This would make it easy for the monsters to be pure XP and there be enough gold found in dngeons to help the warriors push forward.

The players should in no way be forced to have to resort to using time freeze rings and whatnot. Those should be a luxury not a nessessity.

Aye, all the mobs would have to be reworked, but this also goes along with our crit roles and other rules we've been working out where skills are starting to play a great factor in combat.

Yeah I should split up this post among the different forums since everything is kinda right here...
13/May/2005, 5:01 am Link to this post Send Email to golembane   Send PM to golembane
 
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