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golembane Profile
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Lord
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Registered: 08-2004
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


Reason balance issues started to rear their head lvl 3+ is simply because magic items/gold were to freely available. Inflation among the warriors.

When the warriors are poor and running on the basic needs of battle is where the game proves to be balanced and this sadly is only in the first few levels.

After that the wizard grows in power at an almost astounding rate while the warriors begin getting treasure after treasure....

I am an advocate of making the players really of class/character skill much less the items. If you notice thats what I try to say limit spells to maybe 6 specialist classes for the different mages.

Wizard: direct dmg. Maybe 1 AoE.
Warrior priest: Healer(both direct and AoE) and buffer
Elven mage: AoE or deamon and undead slayer
etc.

Gives the players a need to figure out exactly what they want to be important in a battle and gets every type of magic class an importance.

My wife used to play a warrior priest and found the rules to be often frustrating because no matter what she could do the wizard could do better.

As for the wounds. negative wounds really results in alot of paper work some wont take the time to do. I know in any game I've played with negative wounds I've just said once a player hits 0 you have until the end of the next "I" phase to heal him somehow before hes out for the count.

Much simpler and gives the players the need to rush to save the parties main tank should he go down.

4/Jun/2005, 12:30 pm Link to this post Send Email to golembane   Send PM to golembane
 
BassJam Profile
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Lord
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


Agreed on the balance stuff.

Again, for negative wounds, there is NO need for paperwork. If your Warrior is on 1 Wound and takes 6 points of real damage, then you KNOW that that can't possibly be -11 Wounds. Therefore the Warrior is at 0 and all Monsters stop attacking him, leaving him for dead.

If your Warrior is on 1 Wound and takes 13 points of Real Damage, the player still takes him to 0 Wounds, but since the hit
would take the Warrior down to -12 then that hit is a +2 Critical Wound on an Optional Rules chart. At this point it is likely that the wound cannot be healed by normal healing spells which only bind flesh and boyinleaves' chart or another would be necessary to be healed.

---
"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
5/Jun/2005, 1:58 am Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


Like Golembane said, there isn't really balance issues at BL1 (*cough*WizardswithFreeze*cough*), but if we don't change the basic rules, everyone, I promise you, will ignore any changes we make to them that appear in the Advanced Rules. It's just psychology.
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SanFongLong Profile
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Novice
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


 I've had a look at the character creation lists that Peter Haresnape made and they seem to already have gone a big step to providing a solution.

  Magic is broken down into 4 'predispositions', High Magic, Colours, Common, and Hedge Magic.

  The was the biggest issue in WHQ1 with the wizard was the mix and match he could do at higher levels and the overpowerful spells later on.

  To remedy this you just have to restrict the choices of spells the wizard can make and then limit the number of uber spells they can REMEMBER!

  The way I see it spells are complicated and difficult to learn and therefore a wizard should have limit to the amount of spells they can remember. Say you give them so many memory points per level (d6 or something) and then they have to tey and memorise some new spells based on the memory they have gained. The more powerful the spell, the more complicated and harder to remember.

  Give them a restriction on how many spells they can remember from each valid category (High,Colours,Common,Hedge) and if they want to replace a spell they already memorised penalise them by not giving them those memory points back. (Maybe that's a bit harsh but as GM I control the evil doers don't I)
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Boyinleaves Profile
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Hero
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


I'm not really sure about negative wounds being necessary for a warrior to suffer a serious or critical injury. In my games, warriors suffer problematic injuries as soon as they hit 0 wounds, and that keeps them keen to stay healthy, which they should want to do anyway, but I really like the idea of imposing penalties for just how much under 0 (or -10 or whatever) they go. Any penalties on the serious injuries chart that I use would be an extremely painful experience emoticon.

Cool idea with the memory limitations SanFongLong.
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BassJam Profile
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Lord
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


quote:

Boyinleaves wrote:

I'm not really sure about negative wounds being necessary for a warrior to suffer a serious or critical injury. In my games, warriors suffer problematic injuries as soon as they hit 0 wounds, and that keeps them keen to stay healthy, which they should want to do anyway, but I really like the idea of imposing penalties for just how much under 0 (or -10 or whatever) they go. Any penalties on the serious injuries chart that I use would be an extremely painful experience emoticon.

Cool idea with the memory limitations SanFongLong.



Don't forget, I use Critical Wounds AND Critical Hits ;-) ... Critical Hits are more common in my games, but not as deadly, (though they have the potential to be).


---
"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
10/Jun/2005, 12:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to BassJam   Send PM to BassJam
 
thecustodian Profile
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God
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Location: The Temple
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


As it is currently envisioned, for the College Wizards at any rate, they will have access to all the spells at their level (1-4th). Then they have to pick which ones they want before each dungeon. Simple!

Sigmar alone knows what I'm going to do with Hedge and High magics...
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Sudden Real Profile
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Lord
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


Well, since this thread already handles magic (see the title), rather than starting a new thread, I will just put my suggestion here.

Black Drazon already banned the Healing Hands spell because of it's cheezieness, and I have to agree, while it's a life saver at certain occasions, it's WAY too powerful to be decent. So why not this addition: if the warrior is at more than 1 wound, he heals 1 wound. If he's at 0 wounds, he just stays alive at the end of the turn.

Let me clarify: a warrior is 0 wounds and is prone until the end of the turn, on which he dies if he's not healed. If he's healed 1 point through the Healing Hands (or by any spell come to think of it, if it's only 1 point), he doesn't die, but still starts the next turn on 0 wound and is considered prone for the rest of the turn if he's not healed. If he's not healed at all, he still dies. If another Healing Hands is cast, he survives another turn but still can't do a thing.

This way, the spell is powered down, yet remains the initial purpose of the spell (keeping warriors alive). Even though the warrior can't do a thing, he looses nothing when he's healed later, thus ignoring the penalties of a Resurrection.

Just a thought anyway...
12/Jun/2005, 10:34 am Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 
Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


WHAT Ressurrection? lol, keep up, Sudden Real...

The real problem with Healing Hands is just that... it keeps warriors alive. The purpose of tweaking both Healing Hands and tweaking (with a block of C4) Ressurection was to put the fear of death back into the warriors. Death, after all and to quote Bruno, should be a very serious thing! In fact, to further punish those at the brink of death... I was pretty sure we settled on Boyinleaves system of injuries... but no one seems to remember that so I never brought it up.

Anyways, I'm just stating what happened before, you all can fight over it, I guess.
13/Jun/2005, 6:22 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Sudden Real Profile
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Lord
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Re: The White Elephant (The Wizard and Magic)


True... didn't really remember why Healing Hands was banned, only that it was too powerful in it's current form. But you're right, I forgot about the serious Death threath. What can I say, I still have other things on my mind and it's hard to keep track of what was decided in the past if a topic isn't closed yet.

My sincerest apologies to bring this back up, and if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to my corner trying to think of stuff that isn't mentioned or resolved yet.

edit: Still, I think I'm on to something with this "if only healed 1 wound when on 0 wounds you're still prone the next turn" thing... it would add something to the severe damage (not critical wounds or anything) that was talked about in another post. No warrior that was on the brink of death can fight as good as one on full health...

Last edited by Sudden Real, 13/Jun/2005, 2:02 pm
13/Jun/2005, 7:40 am Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 


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