Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo






runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) | Log in: (), globally (lost password?)

Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 

 
thecustodian Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God

Registered: 04-2003
Location: The Temple
Posts: 809
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Not that I've ever done it either, but I think that giving up two attacks for a -2 to hit sounds pretty good. 10th level Imperial Noble at -5 or more to be hit... pretty much proof.
Heh heh heh
29/Apr/2005, 7:06 am Link to this post Send Email to thecustodian   Send PM to thecustodian
 
Sudden Real Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 104
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


This only came to me later, after I read through the Armour section of the 2nd edition and realised it conflicted with what is said here.

First people want to fight defensively to gain toughness and then people complain about the high toughness of the Dwarf? And using your weapon to fight defensively doesn't make you stronger IRL, just harder to hit. So if there ever should come a defensive fighting stance, it should only give to hit penalties to the enemis.

And on a note of using two weapons, the only two (official) warriors that can use two weapons at once are the Trollslayer and Pitfighter, for the simple reason that ambidexterity isn't that easy. Instead of having some penalties for using two weapons (like -1 to hit), you only give bonusses (+1 attack). Time to give my Barbarian two weapons and wait until he goes beserk! Even the Wardancer who indeed has two swords, doesn't get an extra attack (and on a side note, if he uses any other swords than his original swords, he doesn't get his "ignore obstacle during Deathblow" skill, since his swords are perfectly balanced for him, while other swords are not. I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I read in other places that people think he should be able to replace his swords with anything he finds and keep this skill). Fighting with one sword is hard enough, don't ridiculise this by giving the warriors two swords. Remember, the whole reason that you're making this second edition is because some of the rules of WHQ are ridiculous. Don't make the same mistake. I hate to see a third or even fourth edition following.

Don't think this is negative critic or meant to insult or resent in any way, it's just a reminder you should stay focussed on what you're doing. Warhammer has become more popular the last years because of the realism of both their models and gameplay, so it's best realism becomes a part of WHQ as well. Maybe the best way to work out if something is a good idea, is to wonder if you could do it... (and please, be honest, you know deep down inside you're not a hybrid version of Conan and a ninja...)
29/Apr/2005, 2:46 pm Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 
Black Drazon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Actually, Sudden Real, it was this section that reminded me of the Dwarf Tank problem :P. But you're right, in every way. Defencive stance = trashed/optional'd. Two hand weapons the same (I'm being firm about that because... well to tell the truth I just picked up two brooms and tried to see if I could handle them :P. It's nowhere close what you can do with one, try it). I'm not sure about changing anything for shields... we'll see in the armour thread!

For now, I think we're done here. Except that SR just reminded me that we're going have to fix the Wardancer's Deathblow rules later... lol, I had totally forgotten the Warrior packs. They'll be last, as their rules cover every aspect of WHQ which needs to be fixed first.

Oh, there'll be a 3rd Edition :P. Let's just pray its not over ridiculous rules.
30/Apr/2005, 2:40 pm Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Sudden Real Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 104
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Typical, each time someone says they're done, I have finally time to reply...

Why not use a variation of the Critical hit system of WFRP? If you kill a monster (say an Orc), you roll on a Critical Table to see the result. The monster stays in the game and attacks until the end of the turn where the GM rolls a die. Is the result higher than his wounds before he died, he dies, is it lower, he remains alive and gets to fight another turn in which the GM rolls again at the end of the turn, and so on.

For example, the Barbarian kills the Orc in one blow (from 3 wounds). The Orc remains in game and attacks in his turn. At the end of the turn, if the GM rolls a 4, 5 or 6, the Orc is dead and removed from game, if it's a 1, 2 or 3, the Orc stays alive. The next turn, even if the Orc doesn't get any damage, the GM rolls again. If the Orc was on 1 wound when he was killed, he only stays alive on a roll of 1.

As for that Critical Table, I though something like this:
1-Although the monster sustained lethal damage, his save roll is -1.
2-No critical hit.
3-The warrior slashes off the hand of the monster, and it is now -1 to hit.
4-The monster is bleeding severely and has +1 on his save roll.
5-The monster is bleeding profoundly and his wounds are halved (rounded up).
6-The monster is decapitated (removed immediately, no save roll at the end) and the warrior gets a deathblow attack.

If a monster survives and is killed again the next turn, roll again on this table. If he's killed again in the same turn, roll again with a +1 modifier (except for 1's). If a warrior attacks a "dead" monster but can't kill it, his wounds lower anyway, making it more likely to die at the end of the turn. This will of course make the monsters who suffered massive damage (I'm thinking Trollslayer or a Dwarf with some runes) an opportunity to survive to wreak some more havoc, but if a monster gets killed once, he keeps rolling his save rolls at the end of the turn.

Anyway, this is just a thought, and wasn't the point of this thread to figure out an alternative for a Deathblow attack?
30/Apr/2005, 4:52 pm Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 
Black Drazon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


I don't follow these rules... you kill someone and they stay alive? I don't think it's the best idea, especially when we lack WFRP's interactivity. Technicly speaking, thanks to this system a player could be smashed by Da Crunch turn after turn after turn after turn after turn because the goblin in front of him refuses to die, and the 4 layers of goblins behind him still have to go! Can you see a way around this?

You misunderstand the purpose of the thread. Critical Hits were suggested as a replacement to deathblows in the original thread (Combat, from the Main rules). This made perfect sense against Chaos Warriors that no one can ever seem to kill or Giants and the like, but it completely ignored the BL1 cretins like Clanrats, snotlings and the like. So the conversation was derailed but it eventually came back to aid us when Mordheim's "Critical Hits" rules inspired the idea of deathblowing on 6's and using different types of death blows. Does that make any sense?
1/May/2005, 6:22 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Sudden Real Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 104
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


It does, and you're right about the example with the Shaman... worked this up rather quickly and only had time to think it through for the most part. The way I use Deathblows is with the killing blow, no matter on how many wounds the monster is. If it died, you get an extra attack against the monster right next to it.
1/May/2005, 6:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 
Blackheart Ranger Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 52
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Mye sugestion (5 cent)is as following

Basic rules
*Deathblow changes to critical hit table
 if u roll a 1D6=6 to hit

advanced playing
* critical hit
* Defencive fighting= -1 to hit(opt)
  (no critical hit)
* Some new general shield skills

Defencive fighting is in the rules, but I sugest we change it. U will not get -1A, but u do not get Critial hits if u roll a 6

This way u can defend a wizard in a corner if he is low on wounds. The elf might us his bow to its full. Sounds fun to me
1/May/2005, 7:14 am Link to this post Send Email to Blackheart Ranger   Send PM to Blackheart Ranger
 
golembane Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 08-2004
Posts: 100
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Here is Mordheim's general Critical Hit Chart

quote:


A wound roll of 6 causes a critical hit. Roll a D6 and consult the Critical Hit chart. A model may only cause one critical hit in each hand to hand combat phase.

1-2 Hit Vital Part. 1 wound = 2 wound. Roll armour saves

3-4 Hits exposed spot. 1 wound = 2 wounds. No armor saves

5-6 Master Strike! 1 wound = 2 wounds. +2 to injure rolls.




And here is the detailed polearm critical chart:

quote:


1-2 Stab. With a quickstrike, you penetrate your opponent's defences. You gain +1 to any injury rolls. Armour saves are taken as normal.

3-4 Thrust. The thrust lands with great force and the target is knocked down. Take armor saves as normal and see if whether the model suffers a wound.

5-6Kebab! The thrust knocks the target back with titanic force, ripping apart armour and puncturing flesh. The attack ignores armor saves and gives you +2 to any injury rolls. The victim is knocked backwards D6" and the attacker follows, staying in base contact. Any other models involved in the combat are seperated and only the model which struckthe blow and his target are still considered to be in combat. If the target collides with another model, the other model is hit once at S3.



So there would need to be a few changes but is this generally what we are getting at? With rules like Kebab! where you break combat anyways, I think you could count out defensive fighting since it's built into your attacks already.

And before I forget. Here is the injury chart as well.

quote:

Injuries: As soon as a model loses its last wound roll a D6 on the injury chart.

Injury Chart

1-2 Knocked Down. The force of the blow knocked the warrior down. plce the model face up.

3-4 Stunned. The target falls to the ground, barely conscious. Turn the model face down.

5-6 Out of action. Remove the model from the game.



I could also put the armour saving throws out on the table if needed as well.

Just something to think about I guess.
2/May/2005, 2:14 am Link to this post Send Email to golembane   Send PM to golembane
 
Black Drazon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Bah, and I said Settlements would be a hot issue. Let's recap.


We need a way of killing small monsters. The original solution was the incomprehensible Deathblow. We can replace it with a) a lookalike with re-treaded rules, b) one that unleases on a 6, c) Sudden Real's system just a few posts up, d) Version A, but with weapon specific blows, e) Version B, but with weapon specific rules and f) You guessed it, Version C with weapon specific blows.

We need a way of killing strong monsters (Chaos Warriors at low, non-armour piercing levels, etc). There was no original solution, in fact strong monsters snuffed the deathblow. We need a fix. The options are a) Adapt the monster's armour rules to match the WHFB system, in the same manner as the warriors (maybe, no one is talking in that thread, so I assume we resolved or something), b) Adopt a critical hits system based on Mordheim, c) Adopt of a critical hits system based on the monsters (+D6 damage on an x+), d) Allow certain weapons to cause crits instead of deathblows, as I proposed a while back.

Am I missing anything? Don't be afraid to tell me. I hope no one has any more suggestions, because we really need to choose.
2/May/2005, 4:47 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Blackheart Ranger Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 52
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


quote:

Black Drazon wrote:

Version C with weapon specific blows.




Its good to me.
Gives the dwarf tacktical reasons to choose a hammer instead of an Axe aso.

Though, its still when u roll 1d6=6 to hit, right. Because if u roll a 1d6=1 on the critial hit table, I think it should realy hurt bad, even if its a 1

BHR
2/May/2005, 6:06 am Link to this post Send Email to Blackheart Ranger   Send PM to Blackheart Ranger
 
Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 





You are not logged in (login)