Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo






runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) | Log in: (), globally (lost password?)

Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 

 
Boyinleaves Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


I would like to see some relationhip between the weapon, the wielder's parrying ability, the opponent's to hit roll, and the success of the parry skill.

I think using Mordheim's system as it stands makes a warrior's or a monster's skill with their weapon and with parrying less important, because it is based only upon the to hit roll. If a warrior with a parry skill had a bonus to their roll, that would probably make the rules acceptable, i.e. a warrior who in the current rules has parry 6+ would get a +1 bonus to his roll.

Specific weapons could also give a bonus to a roll, i.e. a magical parrying blade might give +3, a shortsword +1 and so on. A natural 1 on the parry roll would be a failure, of course, and a natural 6 to hit could never be parried. Just off the top of my head, these rules alone would seem a bit overpowered, so I think maybe allowing one parry per turn, plus one for every attack given up would be acceptable? Or maybe a warrior could parry a number of times equal to his normal attacks characteristic, and then give up 1 attack for each additional parry. Monsters tend to have far more attacks than a single warrior does in later levels, so more parry attempts seem necessary to me.

Hope that gets you going, Custodian.

For the monsters, I would suggest just keeping parry as it is.
11/May/2005, 1:51 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Boyinleaves Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Just had a thought about swarms and things like snotlings that use the gang up rule.

Perhaps when fighting against multitudes of monsters that gang up, the amount of damage done to the entire mob would be somewhat cumulative.

For example, a warrior is attack a group of snotlings. He hits, and causes a total of 7 wounds (S3 + d6 roll of 4). Instead of simply killing one snotling, the attack is made against the whole group. The first snotling has say, 2 Toughness and 1 wound. So it reduces the damage by 2, and then takes one wound, killing it. There are 4 wounds remaining, so they are applied to the next monster in the group automatically. It too reduces the 4 wounds to 2 with its toughness, and then suffers the 1 wound needed to kill it. The next monster reduces the remaining wound to nothing and is thus unaffected.

Would that help solve the Deathblow dilemma slightly?
11/May/2005, 4:25 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
thecustodian Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God

Registered: 04-2003
Location: The Temple
Posts: 809
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Gangup- nice idea, don't know though.
Parry- cheers, yes, that's pretty much the sort of thing I had in mind
<copy and paste large chunk of text and stick my name on it>
Particularly the thing about how many parries you can use is good.
Weapons: Swords below a certain size, staff (plural stave?)...
Or should it be any weapon? Before now, the sort of thrusts and parries have been ignored in the game mechanics. They sort of go on behind the scenes.
But, MOST important- does this require an activating skill? I think it should.
11/May/2005, 5:51 pm Link to this post Send Email to thecustodian   Send PM to thecustodian
 
Boyinleaves Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Yes, I think a character should know a skill to be able to parry.

I don't think any weapon should be able to be used to parry, but most probably could.

Just to keep it simple, I'd allow any one handed weapon to be used for parrying, and only staffs from the 2 handed weapons.

If parrying rules differed for particular weapons, you'd have to indicate for each individual weapon whether it could parry or not, and that would be a bit of a bother.

Strength is also a factor in Mordheim: blows made with twice the defender's strength can't be parried. You could use this, or, if you wanted to get technical, apply a -1 penalty to your parry roll for every point the defender's Strength is lower than the attacker's.

Last edited by Boyinleaves, 11/May/2005, 8:07 pm
11/May/2005, 8:04 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Black Drazon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Parrying should also not apply when the opponent is not using a weapon.

I like the -1 per point of strength suggestion more than the former, it doesn't make much sense that all the other S points are irrelevant.

I'm not sure how to limit the number of parries, though I think relating it to the number of attacks in some way is the key. It assures the Barbarian-types would have more parries than the Wizard-types.

Speaking of the Barbarian, the Berzerk/Frenzy skills (in the Custodian's new system and elsewhere) should remove a warrior's ability to parry.

Boyinleaves is probably right, allowing only swords and staves to parry is probably for the best. Though shields or daggers (see: Vespero's Vendetta) could give a bonus.

Interesting about the Swarms, it's something else we'll check out during the testing.
12/May/2005, 4:11 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Boyinleaves Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Mordheim uses bucklers to allow a reroll on a failed parry. Models armed with a buckler instead of a shield could either do this too, or just get a straight bonus to their parry roll. Shields should be used more for straight blocking of an attack and defending against missile weapon fire. That way players could have a warrior highly skilled at parrying and therefore not getting hit, or one who just utilised armour to absorb damage.

What do you reckon?
12/May/2005, 11:28 am Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Sudden Real Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 12-2003
Posts: 104
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Boyinleaves gave me a good idea as he raised the example to choose between a warrior good at parrying and a heavily armoured warrior.

Since the armour thread has taken over the deathblow/critical hit thread, maybe this one can take over the armour thread. How about a -1 modifier for each point of thoughness given through an armour over 1 or 2 (helmets not included)? That way the warrior indeed has to choose between parrying and walking around in a heavy armour.

I know, this doesn't solve the problem with the Dwarf as tank, but at least he won't parry the attacks...
12/May/2005, 1:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to Sudden Real   Send PM to Sudden Real
 
Boyinleaves Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


I like your idea, Sudden Real. It is still possible to parry while wearing armour though, so your system seems like it would work well.

Last edited by Boyinleaves, 12/May/2005, 3:42 pm
12/May/2005, 3:35 pm Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Black Drazon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 217
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


I like the system when it comes to the issue of parrying, but it does not solve the problem of armour. In the higher battle levels, a warrior is presented with the option of wearing lots of armour and being immune to most-to-all damage or having no armour and the chance of avoiding all damage. Especially given the large number of non-parryable attacks at the higher levels.
13/May/2005, 8:18 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
Boyinleaves Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Hero

Registered: 05-2005
Posts: 59
Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Deathblow Conflict


Yeah, BD, parrying alone would suck at higher battle levels. I have no idea how the problem of armour could be dealt with. On another thread it was suggested that allowing 1 wound through automatically for every 6 on damage dice would work, but the poster indicated, I think, that it didn't help much at all. If monsters are going to be capable of critical hits, though, the sheer amount of damage these could cause could go some way towards
overpowering a warrior in armour.

All that discussion on parrying made me think of something else: maybe we should have dodging based on the same or a similar system to parrying. Personally, I don't think a natural 6 to hit, whether hand to hand or missile attack, should be dodgable. To me a 6 to hit indicates that a monster has gotten past all of a warrior's defenses, and has pretty much negated his ability to defend himself. Currently, warriors wearing armour have no rules that affect dodging so I think something similar to what we've discussed in terms of parrying would be appropriate; with penalties for heavy armour like Sudden Real suggested, maybe some for being attacked by multiple monsters, maybe a bonus when fighting large monsters as the relative size improves the dodging chance, and so forth. At later levels, parrying would be less effective, and as BD pointed out, no use against unarmed monsters like dragons and things. Against such foes, the dodging skill could take over. Against large monsters it might in many cases even be easier than normal to dodge their attacks, giants particularly are a good example.

For parrying we've got so far:
Basic chance: rolling higher than opponent's to hit roll
Bonus for skill: up to +3 perhaps
Bonus for weapon: up to +3 again
Penalty for opponent's strength: -whatever
Penalty for wearing armour: -1 per point above 2

For dodging we could have:
Basic chance: rolling higher than opponent's to hit roll
Bonus for skill: up to +3
Bonus against large monsters: up to +3?
Penalty for wearing armour: -1 per point above 2
And anything else we can think of.

My only problem with all these rules for parrying and dodging is that they would require a few more calculations than the current rules and possibly slow things down.

What do you think?
13/May/2005, 8:58 am Link to this post Send Email to Boyinleaves   Send PM to Boyinleaves
 
Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 





You are not logged in (login)