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Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Registered: 04-2005
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WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


Ever noticed how hard it is to kill a fully-equipped Dwarf Warrior? It's almost impossible. A Barbarian with the Armour of Taakan? You can do it, but his retaliations will get you first.

Greywolf once supplied a solution to the "tank" problem: use the WHFB system of armour, slightly tweaked (to allow armour saves below 2+, which was choppy at the time, but isn't now). I've tried this system and I like it very much, but am interested in everyone else's opinion.

What say you?, he says in a very LotR manner.
28/Apr/2005, 2:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
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God
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


Do you read the mordheim's rulebook?
They used a 'save armor' system. But if we readapat armor rules, many things must be rewritten

---
Bruno
28/Apr/2005, 5:29 pm Link to this post Send PM to Bruno
 
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


We allow to hit rolls of 6 to penetrate the armour, otherwise some creatures can never hurt the dwarf. We have tried allowing all damage to go through, just one point to go through and the creatures strength total to go through. I'm still toying with it and am not quite happy with the results yet.

It is great fun when the dwarf meets a creature that ignores armour though emoticon or even better, a vomiting troll who can melt armour :bad:
28/Apr/2005, 6:23 pm Link to this post Send Email to grogling   Send PM to grogling
 
Blackheart Ranger Profile
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Hero
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


This could be done in the Critical hit table

On the other hand. If a dwarf is figthing a Dragon St6 Dam 6 ignore blows 5+, Ignore pain 7 aso He neeeeeds his battle tank soute (monstertable Lev9)
(Though I have not played more than level 5's and a level 6 wardancer :-))
28/Apr/2005, 11:08 pm Link to this post Send Email to Blackheart Ranger   Send PM to Blackheart Ranger
 
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God
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


There are plenty of creatures who can ignore armour, but the problem comes with weak, low level creature like Giant rats or skeletons. The dwarf can sit there eating stonebread while they hammer on his armour, and while the other warriors are busy slicing up necromancers etc.
I suggest(ed) making it so that armour protects on a to hit of 1-5, while helmets protect on a 6.
This reduces the maximum toughness the dwarf can get, while allowing a sort of crit.
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golembane Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


If a mob gets a crit we could always make it nullify armor completely, and should the mob be fighting... well even the lowliest of goblins could have a chance to stab you in the throat.

Any set-up much like mordheim and WarhammerFB would fix the issue while keeping the racial armors important.

Also maybe implment the strength rules where if the mob has a strength greater then X then armor bonuses are lowered by Y. This would once again force players to be thinking defensivly if they want to fight a dragon(And not just fire a 10D6 arrow from the bow of loren at it and take it down)
29/Apr/2005, 1:53 am Link to this post Send Email to golembane   Send PM to golembane
 
Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


I can see this is quite a split issue. I like all of your arguements, but find slight fault in the Custodian's and BHR's arguements. Custodian, you said that there are plenty of creatures that ignore armour, but should a full suit of armour really be a pass to Godhood pending the roll of a few Assassins?

As for BHR, the Dwarf doesn't lose his tankness against a dragon, it is simply more vulnerable. It would be around 0+ or so, and the Dragon at S6 would drop it to 3+. Every roll of 3+ would nullify the wounds, while every roll of 1-2 would cause damage.
29/Apr/2005, 6:28 am Link to this post Send Email to Black Drazon   Send PM to Black Drazon
 
golembane Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


Ok since I am doing so many mordheim quotes today I figure I might as well through in their armor rolls as well so we can look at that.

quote:


Armour Saves

Models wearing armour ae permitted a saving throw to avoid receiving damage from a wound. Deduct any save modifiers that apply.

Armour Minimum D6 score to save
Light armour 6
Heavy armour 5
Gromril Armour 4
Shield adds +1 to armour saves



And here is the Strength modifiers.

quote:


Str 1-3 4 5 6 7 8 9+
Save mod none -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6



I don't know how to make it all formal like I want it to be but I am sure you all get the point.
2/May/2005, 2:25 am Link to this post Send Email to golembane   Send PM to golembane
 
Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


No, that's really about it. After all, the only other thing that needs clarification is that a 1 always fails (note that a six does not always succeed!), even if you have negative armour!

We also need to point out that in quest there are more items of armour. Here's our chart:

Leather Armour/Furs/Default Armour (found on many warriors): 6
Chainmail/Light: 5
Heavy/Armour of Meteoric Iron: 4
Plate/Chaos Armour: 3
Armour of Taakan (Includes Warhelm): 2
Shield: +1
Great Shield/Shield of Ptolos/Enchanted Shield: +2
Leather/Open Helm: +1
Warhelm: +2
Armour of Fortune: Special

Therefore, the max armour save with mundane equipment is (-1)+, or as Greywolf would put it "2+ with 3 buffer points used to absorb high strength". Anyone hitting this tin can would bypass on a lucky 1, but the extra security insures even a Dragon at S6 would need a 1 (as the save is decreased to a real 2+). An Emperor Dragon, at S8, would need a 3+. Does that make sense?

The Sword of Resilience, to keep things from getting really crazy, still adds 1 to Toughness.


Last edited by Black Drazon, 4/May/2005, 9:04 am
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Blackheart Ranger Profile
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Hero
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Armour Issues


Im not shure if I follow u guys.

Roll to hit
Roll armour save
Than what. Does the armour also adds toughnes to?
Or does the dragon with 6 damagedices splatter the dwarf if he goes through the armoursave ???
IM no good at math (and english)

BHR
2/May/2005, 6:12 am Link to this post Send Email to Blackheart Ranger   Send PM to Blackheart Ranger
 


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