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Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


How long has it been since I opened a new thread according to the pages of the book? Too long, damn these Armour and Critical rules. I figure it's probably best we all get to see how things were working once upon a time, when we got things done and all that.

This thread covers pages 35 and 36. The only real problem I've ever had with these rules is that Fear is impossible to convert from WHFB, but lol, that's not important. Anyone else?

A few rules for Prone Warriors are found here... I honestly think they should be in the Basic Rules. As for Zero Wounds, there was a discussion of that in the Linking Games thread:

[sign in to see URL]

The rules for 0 Wounds here should probably be moved to the section "Transitional Rules" section, or whatever we're calling it, created by the Linking Games thread.

Everyone ready? Okay... 1, 2, 3... Debate!

Last edited by Black Drazon, 6/Jun/2005, 6:41 am
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SanFongLong Profile
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Novice
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


My only problem I've had with this section is that everyone is equal with their fear and terror tests (leadership tests) Elves and Dwarves are less likely to suffer from fear and terror then a human.
  Maybe there should be a racial bonus or something, like +1 to the dice roll for and Elf and +2 for a dwarf.
  If you want you could even use willpower as well to modify the dice roll as someone with lots of willpower is going to be less likely to bolt at the first sign of trouble.
  
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Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


You've got a good point, SanFongLong. WHQ does, albeit surprisingly not often, suffer from excluding Leadership as a stat. This is about it (this and converting unique rules from WHFB emoticon). I think this is something the Custodian should incorporate into his character creation system, either racially (which will probably be hard to do) or as a feat or trait or something.
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


I use Leadership stats in my home games on an extremely limited basis. It is useful for only two things: Controlling Henchmen (optional rules unto themselves!) and the ability of Monster Bosses to keep their subordinates that Break from fleeing. (I have been steadily introducing Psychology-based magic into the game, so when it comes time for me to unleash Illusionists and the like, I will need to know the Leadership stats of all my Monsters...)

Having said all that, none of those things seems necessary or pertinent to your 2nd Edition project right now. This is definitely GM-only material.

---
"Mine is a high art. I wound with cruelty those who would harm me." - Archillicus
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Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


Agreed. The only thing I can glean out of this section is the paragraphs that should be moved and perhaps a few ideas for character creation/development involving Fear. And has anyone else noticed how useless Break is? It shows up about twice in the game: Hobogobbos (sorry, that's my Barbarian's name for Hobgoblins) and Ghouls.
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Hero
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


There is also a spell or two or a blessing or something somewhere that causes monsters to suffer from 'break', but I don't think it's ever been used in my games. Still, if we actually made leadership an important statistic for monsters, it could be worthwhile.

Most of the psychology section could simply be subsumed by the 'monster special rules' section, considering that everything in it currently (except for the zero wounds which I believe is being moved anyway) applies to monsters. Concerning this though, I think it would be worthwhile to make the current 'monster special rules' section into a generic special rules section in which the rules apply to both monsters and warriors equally. Many of these rules need some revision anyway, and there is no reason why in doing so most of them couldn't be made interchangable between monsters and warriors.
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


I don't really think the monster's special rules need a revision, can't really see something that is broken. But yeah, I think we can drop the whole Psychology part as Fear, Terror, Hatred and Breaking is simply repeated in the monster's special rules, and the prone warriors and the zero wounds thing is already relocated to a more clearer section. Although we might put Hatred also in that section as it seems to be the only "monster" thing the Warriors can also get (due to traveling event 11).
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Hero
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


No, you're right, there's nothing that's really broken at all in the monsters rules the way they work with the current version of the game, but there will be if we change much about the other rules, I also think it would be good if all of the rules for monsters and warriors were standardised so that they could be used interchangably.

If we include rules such as frenzy, for which different interpretations are a dime a dozen for different warriors, they should affect warriors and monsters in the same way. If rules for parrying are adopted to reflect Mordheim's system, monsters should use it too.

I got the impression reading Custodian's stuff somewhere that in his system magic will mostly be chance based rather than point based, and if so Magic Drain and Drain Power will be broken if the casting system no longer uses power points.

If a chance casting system is adopted, Magic Dispel could be changed easily to make it the same as the proposed parry rules, ie. to dispel a spell, the dispelling character/monster must roll higher on a d6 than the caster did on his casting roll (with appropriate bonuses depending on the skill of the dispeller), but meaning that a spell cast with a natural 6 would be impossible to dispel.

Someone else mentioned that the Poison and Plague rules are pretty irrelevant as they stand. Tattoos are redundant, as are Weeping blades currently.

In discussion of making monsters more powerful it was mentioned there is no real reason why warriors couldn't use the magical weapons that the monsters wield. I believe it was suggested that monsters could be armed with pseudo magic weapons that the warriors could obtain after killing them, which would also go some way to making the monsters more interesting and challenging. As it is, the the rules for magic armour, items and weapons are extremely limited and recur far too frequently. They are also somewhat unbalancing at times. At the very least, races should have their own individual lists, or, in keeping with not having too many magical items, simply give them good quality weapons and armour instead of magical ones.

Although I don't have any of the new WHFB army books (or many of the old ones even emoticon ), I'm sure there are lots of new rules that can and will be included with any new monsters or monster revisions, so if we make everything interchangable then there would only be one resource required to find any specific rule and would also tie in well with Custodian's character creation system.
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Black Drazon Profile
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Lord
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


I think Boyinleaves has the right idea, moving these rules all off to different sections and turning Monster Special Rules into a universal set of Special rules... so I think we're more or less done here. This section, which has spent so much time lost between the settlement and warrior development rules, can stay lost :P.


Here's the trouble, lads:

As Sudden Real pointed out, the Special Rules aren't broken. Anything that is broken, as Boyinleaves pointed out, is our fault for changing other rules. Special Rules are easily created and tweaked, as can be seen by every GM-created monster ever. This, unfortunately, means they are wired into EVERY RULE IN THE ENTIRE GAME (that isn't roleplay). Which really means... we can't touch it yet.

In Summary:

Warrior Dev./Spells requires The Custodian

Treasure requires a finished critical and armour system.

Universal Special Rules require Treasure, Warrior Development and Spells.

So good job on this section, everyone, I think we're done. I afraid, though, that we may have to take an unfortunate jump forward in the book to get to a section we can touch...

Last edited by Black Drazon, 9/Jun/2005, 9:30 am
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God
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Re: WHQ 2nd Ed - Psychology


quote:


As it is, the the rules for magic armour, items and weapons are extremely limited and recur far too frequently.


Heh, you've never read 'Tools of Evil'!

Okay, I do have some specific ideas about Fear and psychology which are quite central to my character generation.
I think that Willpower is now going to be the stat you roll on for Fear/Terror/GDT, instead of your Battle-Level. I don't know what other people will think of this... but at least it makes the stat useful. Possibly this will require tweaking in the higher levels, but I hope not. I was also going to make you determine the Agressiveness of your character on a scale of -2 to 2.
-2 Coward- +2 to Pinning, -2 to F/T/GDT
-1 Cautious- +1 to Pinning, -1 F/T/GDT
And so on with Responsive, Brave, and Maniac.

I am going to go off and read the last week's posts now.
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