Flamers of Tzeentch https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/t90109 Runboard| Flamers of Tzeentch en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:12:49 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 11:12:49 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559930,from=rss#post559930https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559930,from=rss#post559930I have assembled my Flamers, but have not gotten to use them yet! The chaos warrior in our party has been flirting with Tzeentch lately, so it is possible they may not attack her. If they do, I would roll the xd6 for each model. Somebody brought up Flamers in WHFB, but don't forget that flamethrowers are much more dangerous in an enclosed area than out in a field! If you really wanted to give the Warriors a chance, I would advise giving them a saving throw or the chance to react for those Warriors that have trap-evading abilities. I don't think they need a to-hit roll as they shoot flames all over. The only thing that varies is the severity of the burns. I would also use common sense and take with a grain of salt the part where they burninate the entire Board! If warriors are split up, I 'draw a Warrior token' to determine where the Monsters appear. If they appear around Warriors that are two rooms apart, I don't see why the lone wanderer would get burned also :S nondisclosed_email@example.com (BassJam)Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:04:25 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559820,from=rss#post559820https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559820,from=rss#post559820hey I know that, I'm playing WHQ for 11 years now. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jerv)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:36:18 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559819,from=rss#post559819https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559819,from=rss#post559819Yeah, but just wait until the Warriors face Giants, Dragons and Greater Daemons! I have been going over many of the higher level monsters' special rules lately and see so much fun ahead! mwahahaha!nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:16:52 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559818,from=rss#post559818https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559818,from=rss#post559818quote:Mark Gunton wrote: Yeah. Flamers == very scary Level 3 monsters. Thanks to Sigmar lvl 3 only nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jerv)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:12:47 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559817,from=rss#post559817https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559817,from=rss#post559817Yeah. Flamers == very scary Level 3 monsters. My excuse is that I don't have my copy of the rules to hand and that I (sob) haven't played in over eight years. Nonetheless, it's still double jeopardy when it comes to Flamers: either stay together and get toasted as a group or scatter and risk one group being incinerated before the other. Still harsh, especially if your healer is not top notch. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mark Gunton)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:10:58 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559816,from=rss#post559816https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559816,from=rss#post559816Now see here! I am always trying to point out - in different ways - to the players in my games that if they will read the rules it will help them understand what is going on. Then I sometimes discover that I have misread the rules. This is why it is good to have these discussions, it forces me to pay better attention! nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:56:56 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559815,from=rss#post559815https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559815,from=rss#post559815quote:RedDog3 wrote: The entry is a little quirky. Here is the explanation from the book: Flamers never make a normal hand-to-hand attack. Instead, they set light to any board section that the Warriors are standing on, immolating the area with the pink fire of Tzeentch. Roll 1D6 per Flamer for each model on that board section to determine how many Wounds it suffers (normal modifiers for Toughness and armour apply). If there are 5 Flamers attacking, for instance, roll 5D6 for each model on that board section. Each Flamer can make this attack once per turn (unless of course it Ambushes successfully) and they themselves are immune to the fire's effects." It says that the damage is limited to 1d6 for each flamer in the board section. If the party can move out of the board section occupied by the Flamers, they will avoid the attack (no flamers on the board section equals no damage)...but it also means that since there are no Warriors on the same section as the Flamer, they will not fry the Monsters as well. This is also important when the monsters end up filling the room and leaking out into adjacent halls and rooms. For me - and for OldWarrior from today - it's look like that: Flamers make special attack by seting the entire room in fire. To chceck witch room it will be - following by this rule: "they set light to any board section that the Warriors are standing on" - you have to check how many rooms the heroes occupy, if it is one then its all clear if it is more then one room then you have to draw a warrior counter to determine witch room will be on fire. That's all for determinig the target of attack becouse next sentence in that ability description says about dealing the damage not targeting - as most people thinks. So dealing damage, rule say: "Roll 1D6 per Flamer (thats it about Flamers, and there is nothing about that they have to be on the same board section) for each model on THAT (on the board that was previously specifed) board section to determine how many Wounds it suffers (normal modifiers for Toughness and armour apply)." So ther is nothing about leaving the board like You said. Hey gus do you realy understand what i write? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jerv)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:43:25 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559814,from=rss#post559814https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559814,from=rss#post559814Wow! We posted at the same time, RedDog3. I think you are misunderstanding the rule the same as I have done for several years.nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:52:34 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559813,from=rss#post559813https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559813,from=rss#post559813The entry is a little quirky. Here is the explanation from the book: Flamers never make a normal hand-to-hand attack. Instead, they set light to any board section that the Warriors are standing on, immolating the area with the pink fire of Tzeentch. Roll 1D6 per Flamer for each model on that board section to determine how many Wounds it suffers (normal modifiers for Toughness and armour apply). If there are 5 Flamers attacking, for instance, roll 5D6 for each model on that board section. Each Flamer can make this attack once per turn (unless of course it Ambushes successfully) and they themselves are immune to the fire's effects." It says that the damage is limited to 1d6 for each flamer in the board section. If the party can move out of the board section occupied by the Flamers, they will avoid the attack (no flamers on the board section equals no damage)...but it also means that since there are no Warriors on the same section as the Flamer, they will not fry the Monsters as well. This is also important when the monsters end up filling the room and leaking out into adjacent halls and rooms.nondisclosed_email@example.com (RedDog3)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:49:26 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559812,from=rss#post559812https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559812,from=rss#post559812quote:Jerv wrote: The special rule for Flamers says that they set on fire ANY board section that the warriors stand on. Then you are taking as many D6 as many flamers you have and roll those dices for every model on the board that was set on fire - and it can be any board that the warriors stand on. So there is nothing about seting on fire only the board occuped by flamers. There is additonal rule that says that flamers are immune to the fire but still nothing about that they can only set on fire the board that they are standing on. Oops! You are right! I was remembering incorrectly. I have reread the special rule (for the 50th time probably in my life) and it does NOT specifically say "the board section (or same board section) where the Flamers are". It actually says "they set light to any board section that the Warriors are standing on". This would make them more dangerous than the way I have been playing them. However, if the Warriors are divided up between two or three board sections, then it seems that a Warrior counter should be used to determine which board section is set on fire. A further possible application - in my opinion - of the rule would be that a Warrior counter be drawn for each Flamer to see which Warrior(s) (and consequently which board sections) they will be attacking. Of course, following the Lantern rules at the same time would require that the leader be in the middle board section if the Warriors were spread out over three sections. This would be a very dangerous situation if other monsters arrived as well... quote:Mark Gunton wrote I think this would have to be a judgement call, because it makes the Flamers exceptionally powerful, even for Level 3. They attack out of Ambush automatically, they hit automatically for (no. of Flamers)D6 Wounds and they can attack every warrior without line of sight/area of effect. Can the attack be dodged? (I'm guessing no). The Flamers ambush on a 1D6 roll of 5+, still that is about 33% of the time. Very dangerous indeed! Yes, as the rule is written, it seems that they can target any board section in the dungeon as long as a Warrior is standing in that section. However, I am in favor of imposing a house rule which states that they must have Line of Sight to the targeted board section. I have been considering requiring line of sight for all monster spell castors too. I also think that the attack could not be dodged, because it is both a magical and area effect attack. In reference to the Flamers being immune to their own fire AND the fact that the rule specifies "each model on that board section" for Flamer damage (instead of "every Warrior"): I have found that the Flamers' attacks are quite useful in getting rid of hordes of monsters and of greatly weakening tougher monsters. So, their special attacks are just as devastating for the monsters as for the Warriors when there are more than one group of monsters present.nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:49:22 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559811,from=rss#post559811https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559811,from=rss#post559811So you're saying that if my Chaos Warrior with his Eyes of Fire mutation went off down another branch in the dungeon to the rest of the party and the party then got ambushed by the Flamers, he would suddenly be engulfed in pink and purple flames? I think this would have to be a judgement call, because it makes the Flamers exceptionally powerful, even for Level 3. They attack out of Ambush automatically, they hit automatically for (no. of Flamers)D6 Wounds and they can attack every warrior without line of sight/area of effect. Can the attack be dodged? (I'm guessing no). nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mark Gunton)Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:25:50 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559810,from=rss#post559810https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559810,from=rss#post559810quote:OldWarrior wrote: quote:Mark Gunton wrote: quote:Jerv wrote: I dont like the rolling to hit idea. And one more thing, leaving wizard in back room is good but in that case you should draw a warrior counter to determine which room will be set on fire - just like events when warriors are not on the same board section. Dont you thik that? Not really, Jervon. I know that Flamers are Daemons of Tzeentch and all, but I dbout they are able to conjure flames beyond the room they are currently in. The special rule for the Flamers is very clear that they set the same board section alite with the flames. So, the Wizard staying back strategy is definitely one way of countering these attacks. It can be a bit risky, but the potential danger sneaking up behind me is not nearly so certain as the Flamers I actually see before me! The special rule for Flamers says that they set on fire ANY board section that the warriors stand on. Then you are taking as many D6 as many flamers you have and roll those dices for every model on the board that was set on fire - and it can be any board that the warriors stand on. So there is nothing about seting on fire only the board occuped by flamers. There is additonal rule that says that flamers are immune to the fire but still nothing about that they can only set on fire the board that they are standing on.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jerv)Sun, 31 May 2009 23:12:32 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559809,from=rss#post559809https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559809,from=rss#post559809quote:Mark Gunton wrote: quote:Jerv wrote: I dont like the rolling to hit idea. And one more thing, leaving wizard in back room is good but in that case you should draw a warrior counter to determine which room will be set on fire - just like events when warriors are not on the same board section. Dont you thik that? Not really, Jervon. I know that Flamers are Daemons of Tzeentch and all, but I dbout they are able to conjure flames beyond the room they are currently in. The special rule for the Flamers is very clear that they set the same board section alite with the flames. So, the Wizard staying back strategy is definitely one way of countering these attacks. It can be a bit risky, but the potential danger sneaking up behind me is not nearly so certain as the Flamers I actually see before me! EDIT: It seems I have been misreading the Flamers' special rule for a number of years now. It is supposed to be the board section upon which the Warriors stand...nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Sun, 31 May 2009 11:56:23 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559807,from=rss#post559807https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559807,from=rss#post559807quote:Jerv wrote: I dont like the rolling to hit idea. And one more thing, leaving wizard in back room is good but in that case you should draw a warrior counter to determine which room will be set on fire - just like events when warriors are not on the same board section. Dont you thik that? Not really, Jervon. I know that Flamers are Daemons of Tzeentch and all, but I dbout they are able to conjure flames beyond the room they are currently in. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mark Gunton)Sun, 31 May 2009 06:05:40 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559806,from=rss#post559806https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559806,from=rss#post559806I dont like the rolling to hit idea. And one more thing, leaving wizard in back room is good but in that case you should draw a warrior counter to determine which room will be set on fire - just like events when warriors are not on the same board section. Dont you thik that? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jerv)Sun, 31 May 2009 05:22:07 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559803,from=rss#post559803https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559803,from=rss#post559803quote:Mark Gunton wrote: Odd, when we've encountered Flamers we've always had them roll to hit first. Yeah, it hurts plenty if you get hit, but at least you have the chance of them missing/getting healed. And yeah, after our first encounter with them, we started having the Wizard hang back in the last room until the monsters were revealed. Hmmm... this rolling to hit idea -- though not stated in the description of the special rule -- seems a good way to help balance this issue. I will probably continue to let the Warriors be engulfed in the flames (without a to hit roll), because in my experience, if they make it to Battle-Level 3, then they can usually even the odds by spells, extra armour, magical treasures, special skills and etc...nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Sun, 31 May 2009 00:45:40 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559801,from=rss#post559801https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559801,from=rss#post559801Odd, when we've encountered Flamers we've always had them roll to hit first. Yeah, it hurts plenty if you get hit, but at least you have the chance of them missing/getting healed. And yeah, after our first encounter with them, we started having the Wizard hang back in the last room until the monsters were revealed.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mark Gunton)Sun, 31 May 2009 00:38:58 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559799,from=rss#post559799https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559799,from=rss#post559799Yea the Flamers of Tzeentch are very nasty monsters. We have encoutered them only oce - and we've died - from taht point we skip lvl 3 - from some odd reason falmers can be encountered only on lvl 3 - gaining the battle-levels in the way taht will allow to play on lvl 2 and then on lvl 4. And sorry for my poor language skills nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jerv)Fri, 29 May 2009 23:27:23 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559798,from=rss#post559798https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559798,from=rss#post559798hey folks. i played this the same way and got toasted good n proper, but looking at the stats line theres a BS skill and weapon skill but nothing actually stating " automatic hit". so perhaps a to hit die is still needed ? i played a daemon army with flamers in WHB years ago,they still had to roll a to hit on the battle field... yes they hit a board section but perhaps the odd square gets missed ??? just a thought on trying to make em livable. mikenondisclosed_email@example.com (kymmyk)Fri, 29 May 2009 22:05:53 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559041,from=rss#post559041https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559041,from=rss#post559041Yes, its like Old Warrior said. The Rulebook states "if 5 flamers,... roll 5D6 (damage) for each model" (means the warriors or other monsters); stating this, the attack of every flamer every turn is included in these 5d6. But you are right, they are real nasty ones, until they are reduced in number.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Matja)Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:11:22 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559040,from=rss#post559040https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559040,from=rss#post559040Thanks for the thanks. It is encouraging to hear that my Stronghold is helpful to you. nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:38:19 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559039,from=rss#post559039https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559039,from=rss#post559039Thanks for the reply Oldwarrior. We will play them as you suggest as it makes sense. When the WQ Roleplay says "Each Flamer can make this attack once per turn" we took that to mean each one would get the 7D6 attack. But I guess that could be interpreted as each are making their attack by contributing to the total damage dice. Either way I think the way you play them makes them playable and means we can bring Flamers back into our games. PS. Thanks for all the effort you put into your website. It really is appreciated. We've been playing WQ for 8 months or so now and are getting to the point we have done most of the adventures that came with the main game, so things like your new adventures are going to be very useful for us. We started playing just after the GW purge killed off the WQ museum website which I never got to see. Yours, spikeinthepit and wqchronicles are full of great stuff. nondisclosed_email@example.com (thefatorc)Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:50:09 +0000 Re: Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559037,from=rss#post559037https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559037,from=rss#post559037The way I understand it and play it is that the flamers attack all at once -- sort of like when 7 snotlings all gang-up on one warrior, except that the attack affects every model on the same board section -- both warrior and monster alike. Only the Flamers themselves are immune to their flaming attacks. In the above example, I understand that 7d6 are to be rolled for each target. I roll individually (once for each target) -- for this seems to be the emphasis of the wording in the RolePlay Book. Also, in the above example, the Chaos Warriors wouldn't have lasted very long suffering 7D6 wounds each turn. In fact, I think it very likely that the Chaos Warriors would have been annihilated in the first or second turn. That Ambush special rule is a very scarey thing in the light of the Flaming attacks coming. If possible, I strongly recommend that a healer (hopefully one that can heal at a distance) in the party move into an adjacent board section to avoid the deadly flames.nondisclosed_email@example.com (OldWarrior)Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:47:18 +0000 Flamers of Tzeentchhttps://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559036,from=rss#post559036https://bwarhammerquest.runboard.com/p559036,from=rss#post559036We encountered Flamers of Tzeentch for the first time a month or so back. 7 of them in the Objective Room!   Fortunately (or unfortunately) being our first experience of Flamers we did not read about the Flamer Attack until we had hacked through the Chaos Warriors which were in front of them, by which time 4 Flamers were left alive. We then realized that if we had played it correctly that our level 3 characters would have been toast on the first attack the Flamers made. Reading the rules it appears to say that all 7 Flamers would get a 7D6 attack, which is certain death to all. Hence for the moment we are not playing Flamers until we find a sensible fix. I just wondered how other people play Flamers, and if there is a fixed version? I did wonder if the initial intent was that they make only 1 attack between all of them. i.e. 1 7D6 attack in the above case. Which would still be likely death, however, with Confuse spell or similar blocking the attack they would not be a problem - probably too easy then. Thanks  nondisclosed_email@example.com (thefatorc)Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:22:15 +0000