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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


Just to clarify what I mean...

I am NOT saying that the gauntlets would not include the Warrior's Strength. AND, the interpretation about using the Gauntlets in addition to using a bow -- that was just showing how it could work out practically in gameplay IF the gauntlets are handled as I suggest.

I thought the gauntlet's damage would just be resolved similar to the Boots of Battle: Roll to hit at WS -1 to hit, resolving damage as Warrior's Strength +1 and rolling the Warrior's normal Damage Dice.

Then while wielding two of them, they would have a total of three of these extra Attacks instead of 1. But, the two together replace the -1 to hit with a +1 to hit (instead), and the +1 Strength bonus/modifier would be replaced with the 4D6 for damage -- that being rolled instead of the Warrior's normal Strength and Damage Dice.

I am not claiming that I necessarily have the right answer, just one that works to prevent all sorts of confusion (IMO).

Since there are other similar things in Warhammer Quest that grant +1 Attack at -1 to hit and +1 Strength, like Blood Rage (Chaos Warrior) and the Boots of Battle, I was thinking they intended a similar function with these items.

So, if the gauntlets enhance the Warrior's normal Attacks (all of them with their melee weapon's modifiers as well), then how do you interpret the only 4D6 damage for the combined power of the gauntlets when they have two of them?

This seems to say that they do NOT add the wielder's Strength but only use 4D6 for damage in such a case.

IF they wanted the 4D6 for damage to take the place of normal Damage Dice, then they should have said that. IF so, then ALL the Warrior's Attacks while wearing two of these gauntlets would include their full Strength, any extra modifiers from the melee weapon, +3 extra Attacks granted by the gauntlets, +1 to hit on ALL of the Warrior's Attacks, and 4 Damage Dice for every one of those Attacks.

By the way, that was how I originally played it for a while. It seemed very much over-the-top -- way overpowered. Yes, I did on occasion have two Gauntlets of Damzhar, because I was strictly using only the treasure tables in the RolePlay Book in my earlier gaming.

EDIT: I hope I do not come across as being contentious on this issue. I honestly hope to come to an understanding that will work best in the games that I GM.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 22/Jun/2013, 5:43 am


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22/Jun/2013, 5:18 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Jerv Profile
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


I play the rules for gauntlets just like OldWarrior - and a friend of mine a 3lvl wardancer just got second gauntlet and a sword of leaping gold so he has 2 of his attacks + 3 from sword and +3 from gauntlets.
About hitting enemies with your fists when you are wielding some hand weapons. Sorry Littlemonk but I totally disagree with you. If you have gauntlets on your hands and you are fighting in enclosed space, or in a crowd then you often need to use your fist to fight your enemy.
Look how it is done:
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1:07, 1:19
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


That has to be the sloppiest, worst sword fighting i've ever seen! That looks like Blood Bowl! emoticon

Now back to realism.

[sign in to see URL]%28glove%29

However, against an armed combatant the use of this feature would have been risky so it was very unlikely that a gauntlet would have been used in this way when a more suitable weapon was within reach. But if the user had no other means to defend themselves the tactics they would have employed would be to attempt to surprise the opponent with this inconspicuous attack, possibly by dodging and countering, aiming for exposed areas of flesh such as the face or weak areas of armour, such as under the arm or the groin.

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OldWarrior Profile
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


quote:

Littlemonk wrote:

That has to be the sloppiest, worst sword fighting i've ever seen! That looks like Blood Bowl! emoticon



I guess they were trying to avoid hurting each other. emoticon

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22/Jun/2013, 11:50 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


Oh, there is another treasure item I will quote here for comparison. It is from Treasure Pack 2.
quote:

Gauntlets of Soul Rending

These cold steel gauntlets have been steeped in powerful magic, and are able to tear the life essence from their victim.
 With these gauntlets, a Warrior may make an extra attack every turn, which must be made before the Warrior makes any other attacks. The attack with the gauntlets is at -1 to hit, but causes normal damage.
 The first time that the Warrior kills a Monster with these gauntlets in each adventure, roll a dice. On a score of 4-6 he gains an extra Wound to be added to his Starting Wounds score permanently.



This treasure item is very clearly meant to be handled separately from the Warrior's normal melee weapon(s). Even this item leaves me with one question: I would like to know whether they intended that it could result in a death-blow. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 23/Jun/2013, 1:22 pm


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23/Jun/2013, 1:20 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

Oh, there is another treasure item I will quote here for comparison. It is from Treasure Pack 2.
quote:

Gauntlets of Soul Rending

These cold steel gauntlets have been steeped in powerful magic, and are able to tear the life essence from their victim.
 With these gauntlets, a Warrior may make an extra attack every turn, which must be made before the Warrior makes any other attacks. The attack with the gauntlets is at -1 to hit, but causes normal damage.
 The first time that the Warrior kills a Monster with these gauntlets in each adventure, roll a dice. On a score of 4-6 he gains an extra Wound to be added to his Starting Wounds score permanently.



This treasure item is very clearly meant to be handled separately from the Warrior's normal melee weapon(s). Even this item leaves me with one question: I would like to know whether they intended that it could result in a death-blow. emoticon



Clear?? I still don't see why you wouldn't be using your weapon for this extra attack? You are wearing the gauntlets, not hitting somebody with them.

I can see both sides, but i still disagree with you.


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23/Jun/2013, 1:36 pm Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

quote:

Littlemonk wrote:

That has to be the sloppiest, worst sword fighting i've ever seen! That looks like Blood Bowl! emoticon



I guess they were trying to avoid hurting each other. emoticon



Actually, it looked quite the opposite. Fortunate that they don't have any real technique or someone might actually get hurt. Reminded me of a martial arts tournament match. Those look just as bad except usually when they sprawl onto the floor, they stop the match, stand the back up, and do it all over again.

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23/Jun/2013, 1:40 pm Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
OldWarrior Profile
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


quote:

Littlemonk wrote:

quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

Oh, there is another treasure item I will quote here for comparison. It is from Treasure Pack 2.
quote:

Gauntlets of Soul Rending

These cold steel gauntlets have been steeped in powerful magic, and are able to tear the life essence from their victim.
 With these gauntlets, a Warrior may make an extra attack every turn, which must be made before the Warrior makes any other attacks. The attack with the gauntlets is at -1 to hit, but causes normal damage.
 The first time that the Warrior kills a Monster with these gauntlets in each adventure, roll a dice. On a score of 4-6 he gains an extra Wound to be added to his Starting Wounds score permanently.



This treasure item is very clearly meant to be handled separately from the Warrior's normal melee weapon(s). Even this item leaves me with one question: I would like to know whether they intended that it could result in a death-blow. emoticon



Clear?? I still don't see why you wouldn't be using your weapon for this extra attack? You are wearing the gauntlets, not hitting somebody with them.

I can see both sides, but i still disagree with you.



The reason I think it is clear is that it says it causes normal damage. This would ignore the main melee weapon's damage, because the Warrior might, for instance be wielding the Darting Steel Daggers which do NOT add the Warrior's Strength, but the gauntlet Attack does normal damage.

OR, the Warrior might be wielding a common Great Sword which gives +4 Strength.

I have always understood that normal damage is Warrior's Strength + Warrior's Damage Dice. Almost every single melee weapon in WHQ (if not every one) is judged by this standard, either doing normal damage or modifying normal damage up or down by various means...

I just thought it is rather evident that these gauntlets themselves do normal damage as opposed to any type of modified damage that the Warrior's melee weapon might cause.

I honestly thought, Littlemonk, that you were going to say something like, "Oh boy! That one really blows my reasoning out of the water!" or something like that, but it seems even our understanding of normal damage might not be the same.

I will now rest my case, because I thought the Gauntlets of Soul Rending were rather enlightening on the issue. emoticon

Would a poll be useful? I sort of doubt it, because I see the potential for all sorts of interpretations of the Gauntlets of Damzhar! If we had three, four, or even five different interpretations represented, I am afraid we would still have players that would say, "I could not vote, because the way we play it is a little different!..." lol.

At the very beginning of our more recent posts on this topic, I had no idea that Littlemonk and I were on opposite sides of this -- though I learned rather quickly of that fact. emoticon

I think this discussion has been worthwhile so far, though I am guessing that we each have become more firmly convinced of our own ideas on the matter. emoticon That in itself might also teach us a thing or two.

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23/Jun/2013, 6:19 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


It will be an issue that will never die. Darn you Andy Jones!!!!

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23/Jun/2013, 7:09 pm Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
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Re: How do the Gauntlets of Damzhar work?


But i do think it's a fascinating subject as far as how people play their variation of Warhammer Quest.

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