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Darrett Profile
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Quest Difficulty


A problem I've been running into in our games has been with the overall difficulty of the game. We're currently back in town with our party of 3, about to hit level 2. We've been fighting full 4 person encounters, and haven't really faced too much of a challenge so far. In addition, we're getting to the point where the party has enough magical items and abilities to make even objective room encounters fairly trivial; we go through the whole dungeon, then fire off all of our "once per dungeon" items in the final room.

Does anyone have some suggestions for making things a bit more difficult? I've started going through the list of equipment you can buy from the Armourer, and reducing the stats on some items, as it's far too easy to get your toughness high enough to ignore most hits as it stands... to give you an idea, our Barbarian at level 1 has 8 Toughness, so he's basically invulnerable to most hits. I noticed that the strength statistic on most monsters we'll fight doesn't increase much when you go up battle levels, so I'm concerned about it.

Any suggestions?
27/Jun/2008, 11:35 am Link to this post Send Email to Darrett   Send PM to Darrett
 
OldWarrior Profile
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Re: Quest Difficulty


Please forgive me if any of my explanations seem to assume some things about how you are playing. I just want to make sure the bases are covered so to speak.

I would recommend "watering down" the treasures.

I use a complicated combination of custom treasure tables and the RolePlay Book.

You could just try using the %20Treasure%[sign in to see URL]]Treasure Tome for a while. Click on it to view. If you cannot view it at this location, try the one in The Museum under the Rules link. I am not sure whether it is ok to link directly to the file (so I won't). You can easily find the file by searching for Treasure Tome.

The Treasure Tome is very good at limiting the value and usefulness of a large quantity of treasures. But, it also allows the possibility of getting some really nice things when least expected.

This table, however, has a tendency to let the warriors get some really nice common armour a bit too often in my opinion. So, whenever two or three of such treasures are found for a party within two or three adventures (or less), I have a tendency to re-roll on the table for an alternate random treasure.

Also, the difficulty and number of the monsters increases as the warriors advance in Battle Level. I am guessing, since your Barbarian is still at BL-1, that your party has spent a good bit of gold on armour and etc... to the neglect (possibly) of training to a higher BL.

This would not completely solve your problem though, because BL-2 and BL-3 warriors have a much greater tendency to survive against the monsters generated by the Monster Tables than BL-1 1st-adventure warriors (without all the acquired goodies you mention).

Here is an idea for balancing this out a bit: I would probably throw in a 33% to 50% chance that each Monster Event would be rolled on one level higher.

Another thing, in reference to Objective Rooms: if you are using the Advanced Objective Room Monster Table (found on page 39 I think) in the WARRIORS' DEVELOPMENT section of the RolePlay Book - RPB, this should help to make the Objective Room more difficult. If you are already using this, you might beef it up a little by reading all the Monster Table levels as one higher instead (so same level becomes one level higher and one level higher becomes two levels higher and etc).

Last but not least, I am thinking that you will want to make sure that you are playing using all the advanced rules -- including all the Monster Special Rules found in the RPB.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 27/Jun/2008, 12:38 pm


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27/Jun/2008, 12:19 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Quest Difficulty


I add here... some of the higher level monsters ignore and/or destroy items of armour. Also, some of the monster's magic weapons can ignore armour. There are certain types of damage magical and otherwise which bypass armour as well. I am thinking right now of a Mummy's Tomb Rot, which also kills a warrior outright (FATAL DAMAGE) if it takes him to ZERO Wounds. Also, I am thinking of the nasty Troll Vomit, which can at times eat up a fortune of armour in just one or two encounters.

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27/Jun/2008, 12:25 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Darrett Profile
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Re: Quest Difficulty


quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

Please forgive me if any of my explanations seem to assume some things about how you are playing. I just want to make sure the bases are covered so to speak.



No problem at all, I've been doing a few things to try to help, but they haven't been overly effective. I'll go through point by point and explain the situations we're running into so something can get hammered out.

quote:


I would recommend "watering down" the treasures.

I use a complicated combination of custom treasure tables and the RolePlay Book.

You could just try using the %20Treasure%[sign in to see URL]]Treasure Tome for a while. Click on it to view. If you cannot view it at this location, try the one in The Museum under the Rules link. I am not sure whether it is ok to link directly to the file (so I won't). You can easily find the file by searching for Treasure Tome.

The Treasure Tome is very good at limiting the value and usefulness of a large quantity of treasures. But, it also allows the possibility of getting some really nice things when least expected.

This table, however, has a tendency to let the warriors get some really nice common armour a bit too often in my opinion. So, whenever two or three of such treasures are found for a party within two or three adventures (or less), I have a tendency to re-roll on the table for an alternate random treasure.



I'll have to try that; currently we just use the treasure deck, as I have the main box deck, the Lair of the Orc Lord deck, all the White Dwarf additions, and Treasure Pack 1 and 2. The treasures themselves wouldn't be such a huge issue, except for the "Use once per dungeon" ones... especially the Firestorm Icon that the Wizard just received. It basically destroys anything in a 2x2 square instantly.

We've limited these items by only allowing the use of one item a turn, since it seemed like there was no real limit on the number of items you can use a turn. (There's a mention of using a single item at any time to heal in the rule book, which could be read as one item a turn, or as many as you want)

In addition, we've put in an encumbrance system where you can only have one piece of equipment for each "slot" on your character. You can have a Helmet, an Amulet, a single Ring, Armor, a pair of Gloves or an Armband, Boots, a weapon or shield in each hand (or a two-handed weapon), and three miscellaneous slots that can hold any item.

This still lets players carry a lot of equipment, but means we don't have everyone using too many "Once per dungeon" items.

I'll give you an outline of what happens when we enter the objective room under normal circumstances.

The Barbarian charges in, rolls for berserk, deals his combat damage, and throws his Spear. Then, the Witch Hunter uses his Lightning Fire Ring on the biggest enemy he can see, charges in, and deals his damage. The Wizard casts as many spells as he can with his remaining power, then uses the Time Freeze Ring. Then we get yet another Warrior's Phase, in which the Barbarian uses the Horn of Shielding, and the Witch Hunter uses a charge from an Amulet. The Wizard uses the Firestorm Icon to destroy any other large enemies. By the time the monsters get to attack, there are usually only two or three remaining, if that, and they're generally unable to deal any damage to the Shielded, high Toughness group.

quote:


Also, the difficulty and number of the monsters increases as the warriors advance in Battle Level. I am guessing, since your Barbarian is still at BL-1, that your party has spent a good bit of gold on armour and etc... to the neglect (possibly) of training to a higher BL.

This would not completely solve your problem though, because BL-2 and BL-3 warriors have a much greater tendency to survive against the monsters generated by the Monster Tables than BL-1 1st-adventure warriors (without all the acquired goodies you mention).

Here is an idea for balancing this out a bit: I would probably throw in a 33% to 50% chance that each Monster Event would be rolled on one level higher.

Another thing, in reference to Objective Rooms: if you are using the Advanced Objective Room Monster Table (found on page 39 I think) in the WARRIORS' DEVELOPMENT section of the RolePlay Book - RPB, this should help to make the Objective Room more difficult. If you are already using this, you might beef it up a little by reading all the Monster Table levels as one higher instead (so same level becomes one level higher and one level higher becomes two levels higher and etc).

Last but not least, I am thinking that you will want to make sure that you are playing using all the advanced rules -- including all the Monster Special Rules found in the RPB.



We're using the advanced tables, yes, and so far they haven't really given us anything that we can't handle with relative ease... it seems like we make a ridiculous amount of gold each adventure as well (We made about 2000 gold each last time). Obviously I don't want the game to be so difficult that it's no longer fun, or we end up losing characters every time we play, but it seems to me like there are several contributing factors that I can't figure out a good way to limit...

1. Magical Items making encounters trivial
2. Overabundance of Gold, leading to characters with extremely good equipment
3. Death Blows allowing us to clear a large amount of enemies before they get the chance to strike.


What I'll try for our next game this weekend will be to add a 30% chance that each Monster Event will be two rolls on the appropriate level monster table rather than one, and roll my Objective Rooms as a full Battle Level higher. We'll see how that works!
28/Jun/2008, 2:15 am Link to this post Send Email to Darrett   Send PM to Darrett
 
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Re: Quest Difficulty


Another possibility is to limit the Wizard's number of attack spells that he can cast each turn instead of allowing him to cast as much as he has the power to cast. Still though, it seems that a BL-1 Wizard shouldn't yet have too much power, unless he has a lot of treasures that have stored power in them.

Again, in reference to the over-abundance of gold, I think that you will find your warriors will have less of that if they concentrate more on training ASAP each time. This will also increase the difficulty of the monsters they will face.

The Magic Resistance, Magic Dispel, and Magic Drain Monster Special rules -- once you face more monsters with these abilities -- should also be useful in limiting the effectiveness of magic and increasing the difficulty.

The effectiveness of death-blows is also lessened once you begin to face monsters that have a lot more wounds, Toughness, Armour and etc...

Again, I think also that various monsters' Magic Armour, Magic Weapons, and Magic Items should slow the warriors down a bit.

I think that your idea to limit the warriors to a certain number of slots is a good thing -- at least as it relates to how much they might be able to do in one turn. If they are allowed to carry more treasures, weapons and armour in their "bag" or backpack, then I might say that they need to spend one attack (as an action cost) to rummage through to get one item out, OR make it even harder and say that they must spend a whole turn doing nothing else in order to get something out of their bag.

You might want to look at the Warhammer Quest Second Edition forum for some more ideas.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 28/Jun/2008, 2:41 am


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28/Jun/2008, 2:38 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Quest Difficulty


I would also suggest a "mandatory" attempt to advance to the next Battle-Level by each Warrior, with "mandatory" use of luck points to accomplish it.

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Re: Quest Difficulty


I think a limit on what a warrior can carry is quite a good method. Although i dont have any set rules for this. The only thing i see as ridiculous is the amount of gold your supposed to carry around which makes the banks rules quite important for you warrior if you place restrictions on gold levels.

I usually only allow 2-3 pieces of types of equipment. I.e 2-3 weapons. They can have as many rings as fingers no more, no extra armour (body can be carried around) 1 extra sheild of some sort. Orbs about 4-5, scrolls around 10, potions around 5-10. and so on.
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