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God

Registered: 04-2006
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The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


If anyone has suggestions or comments to help me out with this issue, I would much appreciate it. If nothing else, your input might help me to think it through more and possibly from different angles.

The reason I call this The Magical Weapons Question is that there are several things within Warhammer Quest that hinge upon whether a weapon is magical or not. Similar applies to Magic(al) Armour, but I wish to clarify the Magical Weapon issue in my mind first.

My usual position on this issue is that unless the weapon's description actually states that it is magic or magical, then I do not allow it to be treated as magical -- even though it might have some obviously magical abilities. I know it seems like a question of symantics, but almost ALL treasure weapons would be considered magical if I did not take such a position. It seems to me that some of the advanced rules would be almost useless unless my application or similar were adopted.

On the other hand, I apply a different rule as it relates to Warriors who are NOT allowed to use magical weapons and armour (think Chaos Warrior -- which can only use his Chaos Artefacts, but not magical treasure weapons and armour). So, it seems I am operating with a double standard. Perhaps it is a bit of uncertainty in the advanced rules which leads me to this difficult position.

Also, I partially take my interpretation from the Magic Sword treasure weapon. I think it is #24 in the Weapons and Armour treasure table in the RolePlay Book.

Here is the description:

quote:

While your Warrior is using this sword he may attack Monsters that are only affected by magical weapons.

This seems to imply to me that other weapons in the treasure table would not counter the monsters' special abilities.

I also find it interesting that it says "only affected by magical weapons", when I see no special rules which state it this way. The examples (below) that I do find just mean that it is more difficult to hit these monsters, not that it is impossible.

But then, I discovered this quote from the Weapons and Armour treasure table in the RolePlay Book:

quote:

Your Warrior has come across a magic weapon or a piece of magical armour.


This would go much against my position of not allowing many of the weapons found there to be treated as magical weapons in reference to the rules below.


Here are some some monsters' special rules which show that it is important to know whether a weapon that a Warrior is wielding is considered magical or not:

quote:

DAEMONIC n
Some Monsters are of Daemonic origin and as such are very difficult to hit. When making an attack with a non-magical weapon against such a creature, your Warrior's to hit rolls are reduced by n, where n is the number after the Daemonic entry. Attacks with magical weapons are made as normal.



quote:

ETHEREAL n
...In addition, when making an attack with a non-magical weapon against such a creature, your Warrior's to hit rolls are reduced by n. where n is the number after the Ethereal entry. Attacks with magic weapons are made as normal.



quote:

GREATER DAEMON n
...When making an attack with a nonmagical weapon against such a creature, your Warrior's to hit rolls are reduced by -2. Attacks made with magical weapons are at -1...



quote:

Sorcerous Exhalation
Lammasu breathes out whirling tendrils of magic that provide protection against magical attacks. All attacks made with a magical weapon against a Lammasu have a -2 modifier on the to hit roll.



Last edited by OldWarrior, 4/May/2009, 10:01 am


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Disc0Stu Profile
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Registered: 03-2009
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


How I play it is that anything that's obviously magical, is treated as magical.

Just trying to think about why the rules were created, it would seem that this would be the most problematic to the Dwarf from the original 4. The Dwarf doesn't have any magical ranged weapons, and their normal weapon is very good and can compete against magical weapons for damage output. If the Dwarf is unlucky enough to not get a magical rune from the dwarf quarter, he could have 0 magical weapons.

Therefor, the party has to balance selling those magical weapons (which sell for a good chunk of change) to level up faster, or to keep a few of them and level up slightly slower.

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Mark Gunton Profile
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


Yes. ISTR there are one or two weapons which are not magical in the treasure cards/tables (but don't quote me on that, I am currently bereft of my copy of WHQ), while the majority are magical by virtue of having special abilities/bonuses. As a Rule of Thumb™, I would say that any weapons carried by the characters when they start their first adventure (i.e. their basic load out) and any that they buy from stores (and aren't specifically stated to be magical) are non-magical. Everything else pretty much falls under the 'Magical Weapon' category.

If, however, you are in doubt mid-game, I can only suggest the 'roll a D6, 1-3 = it's magical, 4+ = it's not' result.

Mark
Evil Quester

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Sardaukar74 Profile
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Registered: 09-2008
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


Agree with Mark. Weapons found all have special (magical) abilities. And regarding the Magical Sword you refer to:
From the list in the treasure section it is by far the cheapest one with a value of 25 Gold. So, its nothing special but its attacks are magical. Other items are magical too, but have further abilities.

But I'm not quite sure about certain treasure items though. e.g. the Quargskin boots. And what about a Bow of Loren for example. Is it magical just because it was made by Elves? Are its attacks magical or only when it fires arrows with this ability (e.g. Magical Quiver)?
8/May/2009, 12:32 am Link to this post Send Email to Sardaukar74   Send PM to Sardaukar74
 
OldWarrior Profile
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Registered: 04-2006
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


Regarding the Bow of Loren, 1D6 wounds per Battle-Level would most certainly need to be considered as a magically-enhanced weapon. The average Warrior must wait until Battle-Level 5 to have 2 damage dice. All that potential damage at higher levels is truly amazing! So, if I choose to allow that all magically-enhanced weapons are to be considered magical versus the monster abilities/rules that I list above, then the Bow of Loren would get the benefit as well.

Remember that the Elves in the Warhammer world have use of some Elvin magic (Elf Ranger Mage is proof of that emoticon).

Quargskin boots -- lol, they are mysterious if not magical, but then they are not considered a weapon nor an armour. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 9/May/2009, 12:38 am


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9/May/2009, 12:36 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


Thanks everyone for your responses so far.

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Mark Gunton Profile
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


quote:

OldWarrior wrote:

Regarding the Bow of Loren, 1D6 wounds per Battle-Level would most certainly need to be considered as a magically-enhanced weapon. The average Warrior must wait until Battle-Level 5 to have 2 damage dice. All that potential damage at higher levels is truly amazing! So, if I choose to allow that all magically-enhanced weapons are to be considered magical versus the monster abilities/rules that I list above, then the Bow of Loren would get the benefit as well.



And further to answer Sardaukar74, any arrow fired by any magical bow would count as a magical attack, even if the arrow is a 'mundane' non-magical arrow. The reason for this, as I see it, is that the arrow is infused by the magic of the bow, but only for the split second it takes to travel from the bow to hit its target, thus delivering the bow's magical affect to the target.
A magic arrow fired from a magic bow would probably stack effects, as well as being magical, but the benefit of magic arrows is that they can be fired from non-magical bows and still be counted as magical attacks.

Mark
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OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


quote:

Mark Gunton wrote:

And further to answer Sardaukar74, any arrow fired by any magical bow would count as a magical attack, even if the arrow is a 'mundane' non-magical arrow. The reason for this, as I see it, is that the arrow is infused by the magic of the bow, but only for the split second it takes to travel from the bow to hit its target, thus delivering the bow's magical affect to the target.
A magic arrow fired from a magic bow would probably stack effects, as well as being magical, but the benefit of magic arrows is that they can be fired from non-magical bows and still be counted as magical attacks.

Mark
Evil Quester



I mostly agree with your logic.

An example of stacking effects: if an Arrow of Death (treasure item which causes +3 wounds damage) were fired using the Bow of Loren, then the +3 wounds would be added to the total damage after rolling the Battle-Level number of Damage Dice.

~~~

Back to my original quandary though... I think that all sorts of magical weapons come too often and in too great a number for the Daemonic, Greater Daemon, and Ethereal special rules to be of much use to the monsters.

Of course, as GM I don't dish out these magical treasures nearly as often as the original game provides. If I adopt the easier position that all weapons with magical abilities count as magical against these rules, then perhaps just another little adjustment to my treasure distribution method -- making magical treasures a little more scarce than I already do -- would help to prevent the monsters from becoming too easy. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 11/May/2009, 12:53 am


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OldWarrior Profile
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


Also, I think fewer magical weapons makes some Warrior's specific rules more important and useful. But, this is an argument in favor of limiting the magical treasures, though it might affect how some would answer my original question.

Here are some examples.

The Warrior Priest: He can only use Warhammers. When he prays at the Temple of Sigmar his Warhammer can be blessed to be treated as magical for one adventure or even permanently.

The Wardancer: He can dip his twin swords into some special water (if I remember correctly) and have them become magical.

The Trollslayer: He begins with a Rune Axe which is called magical which does +1 wound on a each successful hit.

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Disc0Stu Profile
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Re: The Warriors' Magical Weapons Question


Also the Bretonian Knight has a similar event from a Grail Chapel or something like it.

One warrior I want to mention who gets his special ability shafted due to lack of magical weapons to use it with is the Imperial Noble. In order for his Rapier to be of any use against these monsters he has to hope to find the Magic Rune card.

The other way you could do it is rate magical weapons on a "power" level, and only magical weapons of X power can affect a certain monster. You say ethereal can be stuck with level 1, Demonic level 2, Greater Demon, level 3. With the warriors who can get their starting weapons magicked, allow them to get the same effect again, only it increases the magic level of their weapon. Of course, this still shafts the noble, but its an idea.

-Disc0Stu
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