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Hero
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posticon Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


Ok here goes... My 11th birthday, i had dragged my dad into the local GW store and finally persuaded him to buy me WHQ! I had become addicted with painting and collecting Citadel Miniatures from the age of 7 and now i was ready to learn how to play a game...

Needless to say, i was hooked, and for years to come i enjoyed countless games with my friends and younger brother, untill piece by piece, counters and cards went missing, models got converted, boxes broken, the roleplay book fell apart... It was gone.

...14yrs later, i can't take it anymore! I play LOTR and all warhammer/40K skirmish games, bloodbowl etc but for me, you just can't scratch that itch that WHQ does! How many other games can you level up characters, dungeon crawl across the warhammer world, use miniatures and scenery, and play with friends without the need of a stuck-up know-it-all games master? (not good past experiences with GMS) None. My problem though was never before being able to get hold of a copy of the game as it went OOP. Then i discovered E-Bay and internet shopping, finally an answer, but still a slight itch...

I apologise for the long introduction, this is my first 'topic-post' so i thought id make it grand. What my waffling was getting at is; I love the simplicity of WHQ, the dark warhammer background, the current range of miniatures (especially plastics) GW produce, and Terrain making. What i want to achieve is an 'update' of the game adding realism to certain areas(magic!)and simplify other areas where i feel the game gets bogged down. I aim to produce 3-D dungeon tiles, and my own card designs/graphics - so i can contantly add to the game and expand on it for the rest of my days! I also want to capture the dark atmosphere(similar to mordheim)of the warhammer world through these productions. I plan to introduce or re-introduce old and new players of the hobby to the game through my local gaming group, so it needs to make sense and be fast! very fast!

So, i have a few ideas up my sleave, but i'll update as these get a bit more refined, my first question to you all is; I have seen many posts refering to experience replacing the gold load training method and wanted to know what different peoples take on this was? or more simply; EXPERIENCE: HOW DO YOU DO IT?

oh, thanx for listening to my waffle!

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21/Jun/2009, 6:48 am Link to this post Send Email to Addz1845   Send PM to Addz1845
 
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Hero
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posticon Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


Just to clarify; I DO NOT WANT TO RE-INVENT WHQ just 'improve' on it's (minor) flaws or 'cracks' as some say.

And i plan to run most of its variables using cards as i love this unique mix of miniatures and cards, and cards make it easier to expand - you just add new cards!

Want a themed dungeon?, pre-select monster cards, traps, events etc EASY. Though producing the cards themselves is going to be a mammoth task in its own right.

RIGHT so back to it; HOW DO YOU GUYS CONVERT GOLD TO EXPERIENCE ETC?

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21/Jun/2009, 8:18 am Link to this post Send Email to Addz1845   Send PM to Addz1845
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


I am a dreaded, know-it-all (sort of emoticon), GM!

I agree with you 100% about the itch that this game scratches. I have mostly played it solo myself, though I am sure it is much more fun while played with three others. I did play it with a friend years ago. We each played two characters.

Just a note: In the games I GM, I give 5 XP per wound healed to Warriors for healing instead of 5 gold. I will not go into all my XP, gold, and treasure distribution methods, because it is very complicated. lol


A Sort of Simple Method (I recommend this one, or some variation of it, for your purposes)

A Warrior would gain the value of monsters killed as XP instead of gold, but otherwise all gold and treasure values would be handled the same as the official books outline. So, killing a Minotaur gains the Warrior 440 XP!

There should still be plenty of gold gained from the normal treasures (if need be, by selling them) to be able to do everything you need gold for in settlements between adventures. It just would not be quite as easy (or quick) for Warriors to outfit themselves with the latest and greatest weapons, armour and etc...

On the positive side, your monster-killing XP would NOT be subject to loss by events, hazards and etc... like your actual gold.

When training time comes, the Warriors would only spend XP for training. 2000 XP instead of 2000 gold for advancing to Battle-Level 2.

Under this proposed method, I would generally be in favour of sharing the XP from monster kills among all the warriors, but I think it could work either way.

Other than the shortage of gold for purchases very early in the game, I cannot at the moment think of any other downside to this proposed method.

With this method, I suppose you could impose a rule about maximum amount of actual gold a Warrior could carry, but this might begin to complicate things more...


Another Method (more complicated)

I know another GM who shares the XP from monsters slain among the party. Also, each Warrior gets 10% of his slain monsters' value in gold as a bounty when he reaches a settlement.

When training, they must spend the full amount of XP PLUS 10% in gold. For instance, if training to Battle-Level 2, the Warrior must spend 2000 XP and 200 gold.

However, with this method, various equipment in the shops is sold for a percentage of the value listed in the RolePlay Book. If you are interested, I can post some of this GM's economy rules in greater detail, though I suspect his rules, like mine, are too complicated for your purposes.

Thanks for listening to a know-it-all GM. emoticon

I hope this helps some.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 21/Jun/2009, 1:11 pm


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21/Jun/2009, 1:09 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


Cheers Old Warrior, i knew that there would be a simple answer to my Q, i guess like anything you can always make rules up etc, but then you always fall into the trap of either over-complicating stuff, slowing the game down or worse.

I really like this idea of exchanging gold for experience, and i guess the lack of gold could be made up by including more 'gold' finding cards in the treasure card pile, and maybe certain monster cards could perhaps includ a small gold value like 1d6 gold or 2d6-1 etc (This is because i don't see giant bats or Spiders carring around pouches of cash!) Also seeing other peoples concerns with the game getting to 'easy' as they progress, mainly because the warriors have bought loads of top notch items, because they have more gold than they know what to do with, and kept all of the treasure cards (which sometimes they might have to sell to buy provisions/healing potions etc if there was a gold sortage). All in all, BONZA mate, simple, love it.

So on to my next Q: Warriors Phase/Monsters phase, i noticed on the forum for WHQ V2 that you have put these together in 1 phase and go in order of initative, so does this work as an 'Action Phase' where one warrior/monster moves, shoots, fights, magic etc then the next highest iniative goes in order and so on... or is it everybody moves, then everybody shoots, fights, etc?
I also think that Exploration should be an action that can only be performed with a light source and if there are no monsters present (on the board?).

So.. i guess (and i am writing as i think) the turn order would look something like this:
-Power Phase
-Action Phase (order of iniative)
-Records phase (just quickly writing down exp,gold,notes, collect treasure cards, tying up lose ends etc)

Just an idea, please share your thoughts.

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22/Jun/2009, 6:10 am Link to this post Send Email to Addz1845   Send PM to Addz1845
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


Originally, the basic idea of giving XP for monster kills was something I picked up from other GMs. I don't acually use it myself most of the time. I like to let the Warriors carry all that gold around! emoticon

Concerning the Second Edition: I don't often refer to that for any sort of reference for my games -- though I might read it once in a while to get some ideas -- because I think much of what has been discussed there would make the game more complicated. This is just my opinion. I am one of the most guilty for complicating the game. All you have to do is check out several of my Custom Warriors (marked with OW) hosted on my ]Custom Characters page.

The idea of making the Warrior Phase and Monster Phase into one Action Phase is not a favourite of mine, though I have been experimenting with it some in one WHQ game where I have been trying to incorporate some Dungeon Bash/D&D stuff. But, I think it is very possible to upset the balance of the game further by doing this -- normally you get a full round of Warriors attacking BEFORE the monsters attack. For one thing, this sort of complicates the Ambush special monster rule and some of the Warriors' special things, like the Pit Fighter's quick reaction skill/ability. From another angle, this type of thing would make Initiative a much more important characteristic for both Warriors AND monsters. Elves would excel and Dwarfs would lag behind! emoticon

If you want to avoid complications (mostly) I recommend keeping the Warrior Phase and Monster Phase as they are.

Most games I play with others has two more Phases added: Event Phase (a split off from the Power Phase since we use a separate 1D6 for the Event instead of the actual Power Phase 1D6) AND Reaction Phase (mostly for healing). I think these things help to organize the turn a little better.

Furthermore, take a look at my outline/ideas for an ]Advanced Turn Phases Guide (forum topic here)

EDIT: Also, I think you might like -- or like in modified form -- my new "Roll for Gold table". Instead of rolling as many 1D6s as they want, each Warrior only rolls a single 1D6. Here is an image of the table:

--Log in or sign up to see linked image content--


All-in-all, I think the players would get a little more gold by this method if they are the greedy/chance-taking type, and average about the same amount of gold if they are usually more conservative with their number of dice rolled.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 22/Jun/2009, 7:30 am


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22/Jun/2009, 7:23 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


with regards to Gold, I was thinking more along the lines of certain monster cards(as i will be re-producing all cards - mammouth!) having a gold value (per monster).

for example using my idea;

if goblins were to carry 1D6 gold say, and a warrior killed 2 in the action phase, in the Record phase he would update his XP, roll 2D6 to see how much gold he found on them (and add it to his gold total), and if the warriors had killed all the gobbos, take a treasure card in this phase.

With regards to initiative order messing things up;

AMBUSH - allows monsters to attack immediately (ie, in my system, get to attack before the warriors, this turn.

PIT FIGHTER - SPECIAL RULE
whenever an unexpected event causes monsters to arrive, roll a 1D6...
1 - does nothing until next action phase
2-4 - fights in initiative order as normal
5-6 - fights first, (before warriors and monsters - even if they ambushed)

To me, I don't think that changes the meaning or gameplay of the original rules. But say if you see any flaw in this system.

with reference to your first replay old warrior, i do think the warriors should pay a small fee to get trained - makes sense no ones gonna do it for free, xp kinda acts like 'your ready now' and the 10% conversion is a good way of doing this. IE, 2000xp and 200Gp as your example stated.

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Addz1845
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22/Jun/2009, 8:35 am Link to this post Send Email to Addz1845   Send PM to Addz1845
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


Well, if I understand correctly concerning the action phase: Monsters would sometimes get to attack before some of the Warriors without even having an ambush ability -- just based upon initiative order. So, in my thinking, ambushing monsters might actually get to attack twice before some of the Warriors could even attack once. This is why I was thinking it would throw the game out of balance.

If, however, you are basically moving the Warrior Phase and Monster Phase into the Action Phase but still keeping them in the same order (Warriors go first, monsters go after them), then it isn't really being changed so much are just being represented/organized a little differently.

About the gold: it sounds like you might like Thecustodian's house rules concerning XP, gold, the prices of things and etc... I host his rules on my site in the House Rules section. However, if you go with his system, or some form of it, you may want to adjust the prices of things like he does too.

It seems also that you are doing a serious remake of the game's cards. Sounds like a lot of fun AND a lot of work. emoticon

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Old Warrior

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22/Jun/2009, 9:01 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


I want to do a serious remake of the cards so i can cohesively add to a collection time and time again. This is also my reasoning of making clear on what i what to do and achieve before i start production of the cards.

The action phase would work in order of initiative, and ambush just allows them to attack before the warrior in the turn order, albiet only attack once in the turn, you are right that this would seem pointless if a monster has a high initiative already and therefore attacks before some or all of the warriors anyhow but on the whole it allows monsters to attack before warriors and thats the important factor of the ambush rule.

To keep structure, a person's turn in the action phase would follow some kind of order:
like; move,shoot,combat,etc

You are probably right about the prices of merch in the settlement, but then i was going to put the charts for each shop on separate reference cards, so maybe i can alter these slightly with a bit of play testing...

Still my mind is thriving off of some of your ideas, so keep up the advice it really helps!

Oh, and one more thing, what have people done with the wizard?
I thought the obvious change would be to allow the player to choose which colledge his/her wizard wants to be a member of, and then when they choose spells they are restriced to 'their' own listings - I also wanted to make a Tome of Magic containing all spells for all battle levels for all winds of magic - of which i could give each wind similar spells with different descriptions on one hand and give them 'unique' spells on the other.

I choose this route because I see a bright wizard acting completly different to a jade wizard or an amethist wizard, yet all could use the hand of death scroll, and a sword - Then again i was also going to allow a few options(choices) for weapons/equiptment when a new warrior is made, mainly to allow people to more choice in miniatures, for example:

barbarian - sword or axe choice?
wizard - college choice?
warrior priest - 2 hammers, 2 handed hammer
           hammer and shield choices?
and so on...

What are your thoughts?

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22/Jun/2009, 9:48 am Link to this post Send Email to Addz1845   Send PM to Addz1845
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


For the moment I will only comment on the Wizard and the eight colleges. I think you can find all the college wizards in my Custom Warriors page. They were created almost exactly as you say. Mostly, they took existing spells and used them for the appropriate colleges. Some had their casting cost changed. Also, they added some new spells for each specific college.

Here are the specific college Wizards (most by Greywolf):

Alchemist (Gold Mage)
Astronomer (Celestial Mage)
Druid (Jade Mage)
Fire Wizard (Bright Mage)
Grey Wizard (Shadow Mage by Thecustodian)
Grey Wizard (Weather Mage by Greywolf)
High Priest (Light Mage)
Shaman (Amber Mage)
Mentalist (Amethyst Mage)

Oh, if you haven't already, I highly recommend visiting
]WQ Chronicles
]The Museum (Bruno is the webmaster)
]Old Warrior's Stronghold (by You Know Who)

---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
22/Jun/2009, 11:27 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Warhammer Quest 'Resurrection'


Awesome i'll be sure to check those out, cheers.

And your thoughts on a simple wargear choice for the others? I thought that better than using complete character generation methods, especially if you want to get the game going quick or if players decide to play a one off game?

Penny for your thoughts? (you probably should be charging!)

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Addz1845
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22/Jun/2009, 8:34 pm Link to this post Send Email to Addz1845   Send PM to Addz1845
 


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