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Lord
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Registered: 09-2011
Posts: 269
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


sorry guys I saw this update the other day and forgot to reply.

I've always played by the bladed weapon rule and not really considered it until this conversation.
this royally stuffed the warrior priest who is frankly of the main release characters by far the weakest, despite the fact that the background is filled with dwarf runesmiths wielding rune [sign in to see URL] the hammer of sigmar being described as a hammer covered with dwarven runes...

in the past imperial nobles and pit fighters have both used rune of death on their favoured weapons (rapiers and fist spikes respectively) in my games and I've never thought about it in this context.

I dunno though I don't view American football shoulder pads with spikes on them the same way as a fist spike or a rapier. but maybe I should.

so not entirely a consistent approach from me basically emoticon

I'll be honest and just say that I don't necessarily regard the rules as written as being all that important, if everyone is having fun.
I worry more about rules that hamper fun (like the power grades of certain warriors compared to others) and work to change those.

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
7/Oct/2014, 7:34 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
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Lord
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Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


Old Warrior and Edquest, thank you for your replies.
I appreciate the feedback.
It would be great to hear from some other folks too!
Would you others, that still frequent here at all, please give your take?

I like working through issues like this because I never know when or if some of us may have the chance to play together.
I would rather have a slight clash/difference here than when we have sat down to play.

I have a combat question that I would like your view on, but I need to go right now so I will ask later.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
7/Oct/2014, 9:26 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


Folks, here is the question concerning the Ex Blood Bowl Player (EBBP) and combat I mentioned when I was on last.

The Rules read:

WEAPONS
The Ex-Blood Bowl Player starts the game with the Spiked Shoulder Pads Equipment card. This allows him to make a special Running Blitz attack. He may move and attack, then continue moving and attack again. He may continue to do this as long as he moves in a straight line and doesn't run out of movement points. He may use all of his natural attacks on each enemy attacked, but gets no "deathblows". While doing a Running Blitz, the Ex-Blood Bowl Player can not be pinned.

The Ex-Blood Bowl Player may not use any weapons, except his Spiked Shoulder Pads and anything he buys from the Foote Locker.


Okay now, I have a question regarding the Running Blitz attack since we have had a disagreement here up in the Rockies.
   XXX
OXXX[]XXXX
XXXX[]XXXO
O O
Sorry for the primitiveness of this "play" diagram.

The EBBP is the "O". and is facing the doorway on the other side of the three monsters (XXX[]).
The current characteristics involved with this situation of the EBBP are: WS:6, Att: 4(5): Dam: 2D6(3D6)
The fifth attack is due to Spiked Cleets; that is why for the (); a characteristic that could be lost due to an item being lost.
The third dice of damage is due to a Ring of Power.

Now, at the start of a declared Running Blitz attack, if the EBBP strikes to his left front, killing the monster, does he have to advance into that square immediately?
Or can he stand his ground and strike and kill the monster to his right front?
And still stand his ground and then strike and kill the monster in front of him and THEN Follow Up into his square as long as he did not run out of attacks until after the monster directly in front of him was dead?
And continue his Running Blitz attack forward?
In other words: Strike left and kill, Strike right and kill, Strike forward and kill, Follow Up forward, Strike left and kill, Strike right and kill, Strike forward and kill, Follow Up forward, and repeat until movement is expended or you cannot kill all the involved monsters present when the EBBP's natural attacks are completely expended after a move.
What are your opinions?

Now that I finally got that all out in a semi-coherant fashion, here are some other disagreements that have come up concerning the EBBP lately:

Someone here has insisted that the D6 in the both the damage from the Spiked Ball {D6+8} and from the Spiked Cleets {D6+Str} stays only a D6's worth of damage and has nothing to do with your current damage dice.
What say you folks?

Persons here have insisted that if you roll 2D6=4,5,or9 while rolling on the Skills chart during training, you lose any possible skill you would have picked up.
Others here say just roll again.
What do you folks think?

Because of the EBBP's weapon restrictions, some here say the EBBP cannot use magic rings.
Others say they can be his version of the Pit Fighter's Knuckle Dusters without the fighting plus other than what the rings can do as said on the treasure cards.
What is your take?
Such a shame that the EBBP cannot shop at the Fighting School's armoury.

Well, there are the current disagreements involving the EBBP.
I would really appreciate you all weighing in on the issues.
Thank you.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
12/Oct/2014, 12:35 pm Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
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God
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


Well, it certainly seems complicated. I might come back later to make additional constructive comments, but my brain is too tired at the moment. emoticon

I will only answer one of the issues for the moment. I do not see anything in the rules quoted that would prohibit the EBBP from using magical rings. It specifically prohibits other weapons.

EDIT: Okay. So, I finally return to do some more thinking and answering. I will quote several questions/issues from Warrior Monk's post and then answer after each quote.

quote:

Now, at the start of a declared Running Blitz attack, if the EBBP strikes to his left front, killing the monster, does he have to advance into that square immediately?
Or can he stand his ground and strike and kill the monster to his right front?
And still stand his ground and then strike and kill the monster in front of him and THEN Follow Up into his square as long as he did not run out of attacks until after the monster directly in front of him was dead?
And continue his Running Blitz attack forward?
In other words: Strike left and kill, Strike right and kill, Strike forward and kill, Follow Up forward, Strike left and kill, Strike right and kill, Strike forward and kill, Follow Up forward, and repeat until movement is expended or you cannot kill all the involved monsters present when the EBBP's natural attacks are completely expended after a move.
What are your opinions?



I think from the way it is worded that it is implied that the EBBP can only attack ONE monster from each stop along his path in a straight line. It says He may move and attack, then continue moving and attack again. The fact that each monster attacked can be attacked with all of his natural attacks AND that he does NOT get death-blows while performing the Running Blitz, argues strongly in my mind for NOT attacking multiple monsters from the same square.

Also, I do NOT see anything in the wording that says it must be that he attacks only monsters in the actual squares of his path of movement. NOR do I see that he must, similar to the Pit Fighter using a Fist Spike, "step into the killed monster's square".

To summarize what I get from the wording: The EBBP may attack one adjacent monster (left, right, forward left, forward right, or straight ahead -- or maybe even behind him? lol) with all his natural attacks, then, whether he kills that monster or not, he may move another square (or more) along a straight line, and attack another monster (not one he already attacked, assuming one might have survived) with all of his natural attacks, and so on, until he takes his last step and attacks another monster (if available) from that square.

Sub-point: This Running Blitz might be a good argument by itself for the EBBP to indulge in ways to increase his Movement characteristic, since it would increase the amount of potential attacks he could make in a Running Blitz. emoticon



quote:

Now that I finally got that all out in a semi-coherant fashion, here are some other disagreements that have come up concerning the EBBP lately:

Someone here has insisted that the D6 in the both the damage from the Spiked Ball {D6+8} and from the Spiked Cleets {D6+Str} stays only a D6's worth of damage and has nothing to do with your current damage dice.
What say you folks?



For me the Spiked Cleets are much easier to explain the damage than the Spiked Football, because the Spiked Cleets' description actually says that it does normal damage. The expression normal damage in Warhammer Quest means Warrior's Strength + Warrior's Damage Dice. A Sword, for instance, in the Weaponsmith's shop says it does normal damage (1D6 + Strength), but we all(?) know that the 1D6 there only represents a low-level Warrior's Damage Dice value. When a Warrior has Damage Dice: 2, normal damage is then understood to be 2D6 + Strength.

I think that since Spiked Football's description does not say normal damage, it would be a little easier to insist that it will always be 1D6+8 damage, but I lean heavily towards allowing the EBBP's Damage Dice to be used. Here is the reason why: The first part of the Spiked Football's description says The Spiked Football allows the Ex-Blood Bowl Player one ranged attack per combat (as you throw the ball at something). I think that the normal rules of the game for how ranged attacks are handled would then apply. Those rules are very similar to the rules for normal damage, except that most ranged weapons have a specified Strength separate from the Warrior's Strength. In this case, the Spiked Football's Strength would be 8. So, normal ranged damage would be ranged weapon's Strength + Warrior's Damage Dice.

quote:

Persons here have insisted that if you roll 2D6=4,5,or9 while rolling on the Skills chart during training, you lose any possible skill you would have picked up.
Others here say just roll again.
What do you folks think?



IF the issue here is in rerolling these skills -- I suspect it is -- after having already gained them in the past, then the RolePlay Book answers this quite nicely (on page 46):

DUPLICATE SKILLS
If the roll to determine your Warrior's skill indicates one he already has, you must roll again until you get a skill your Warrior doesn't already have.


Unless a Warrior's rules specifically state that they can/may gain the same skill more than once, then I think we should fall back on this general rule that would apply to all Warriors.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 16/Oct/2014, 8:49 am


---
Old Warrior

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God bless you, everyone!
13/Oct/2014, 1:39 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


my opinion is he would move in a straight line forwards and make all of his attacks against each model if necessary or until he runs out.

so in this example he has 5 attacks including cleats so model 1 would get up to 5 attacks and if it dies the EBBP moves into their square and starts on the one directly behind them
(because of moving in a straight line rule)

this means he would likely kill every enemy in a straight line which is pretty potent, but not as nasty as say a bow of loren.

I would not allow him to attack those to left or right of the straight line as this is intended, I believe, to represent him charging forwards and laying into anything he bumps into on that straight forward charge.

he's not lashing out to either or both sides as all. in my opinion.

as to the ring, nothing stops him from wearing this. in my games a Ring of Power cannot be used for Damage Dice. my reasoning is that the chaos warrior has a "characteristic table" and Damage Dice are not listed on it, they advance only by achieving the appropriate level.

(I know there is the counter argument for the pit fighter buying his characteristics including the Damage Dice, but I think the issue with the ring allowing Damage Dice is that nobody would ever use it for anything else. at least some characters will use WS with my proposed use of the ring, although most will still increase Attacks, wizards and warrior priests can benefit from that WS increase)

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
16/Oct/2014, 5:41 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


Thank you edquest.
Old Warrior, could you please finish your response?
Plus, everyone else, please weigh in.
Thank you.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
16/Oct/2014, 6:23 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


I edited my post above to include more of my opinions.

---
Old Warrior

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It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
16/Oct/2014, 8:30 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: Ex Blood Bowl Player


Thank you Old Warrior for your take.

Everyone else, please comment.
Even if it is just, "I agree with ...", please comment.
I need multiple folks saying what they think to help get weight here so I can present it where I am.

Read you all soon.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
16/Oct/2014, 8:58 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 


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