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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


Some of the rules have changed (even before beginning my first play testing game), and MUCH has been added. I have added many Warrior Traits and Perks mostly from the Fallout games (converted into WHQ).

I still need to decide -- probably will -- whether to let the Warriors gain one new perk at each new Battle-Level.

The Warrior Customization process at the very beginning of the game is sort of complex, but I might be revising or rewording things to make it more user friendly.

The wiki is where most of the details can be found.

]Very Advanced WHQ Wiki


I really should name it something else and the entire project for that matter, because I don't want to get tangled up in possible IP Policy issues.

Old Warrior's Special Advanced House Rules for Warhammer Quest -- would that work? I think maybe so.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 5/Nov/2011, 9:52 am


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5/Nov/2011, 9:51 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


Well, I wanted to share a more complete summary of rules variations. Instead of typing it all here, I included a section in the wiki called #SummarizedRulesVariations]SummarizedRulesVariations (clicking on the link should open up only that section)

Here is a screen shot of that info:

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25/Nov/2011, 3:08 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


I think the complexity and depth pretty much takes it out of the realm of Warhammer Quest and into more of a tabletop AD&D game. As far as the rules go, i have a feeling that there are now more things unlike WHQ than there are things like WHQ.

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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


quote:

Littlemonk wrote:

I think the complexity and depth pretty much takes it out of the realm of Warhammer Quest and into more of a tabletop AD&D game. As far as the rules go, i have a feeling that there are now more things unlike WHQ than there are things like WHQ.



You might be right. I was thinking of this being some sort of middle-ground between D&D and WHQ. Play-testing will tell the story.

The main thing will be whether I as GM and the players really like it. I suspect that those who have DnD experience will feel more at home in this type of game than those with only WHQ or similar experience.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 25/Nov/2011, 11:35 am


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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


I have to respectfully agree with Littlemonk on this.

I play a very "advanced" game of WHQ with my group, and I love extra rules, adding war machines, leadership tests, and stuff like that to the mix. Whenever I can, I lift the rules for these things directly from WHFB or WHFRP 2nd edition, and since the system is so compatible it has been working out great. But I'm always careful to maintain the spirit and pacing that WHQ perfected.

If you look at the current (4th edition) Dungeons & Dragons, it's essentially turned into a miniatures strategy game reliant on grid-maps or tiles just like WHQ. I think we have some things to learn from 4th edition, but also a lot of things to sit back and gloat about, since WHQ was already on this system 15 years ago!

A lot of the rules you're working on, like encumberance or monster animosity, I think can be pretty effectively covered by good Gamemastering. Not to say that it isn't useful to have rules laid down about things before declaring them to your players, but we have to be mindful of which mechanics are just going to slow down the gameplay.

Combining monster and warrior phases into one thing does seem like it could be a good idea (roll for initiative!) but then again I think there is something about keeping them separate that just works. It's a holdover from the WHFB rules that the system is descended from, and I think it actually keeps the tension higher when the warriors realize it's that part of the turn where they get pummeled. This is something I still don't have a strong opinion on, but seem to prefer keeping as is for now. I've also adopted the reaction phase for my games, though.

One thing for sure that I know I would never use is the fighting stances - it just slows the gameplay down way too much, and even D&D doesn't use it. The exception of course is that the players can still declare that they're doing something special this turn, for instance like the Wizard using his staff to fight defensively and gaining a +1 to toughness.

I think that the options for what players can do should be unlimited, but I also think that it's up to the GM, not the written rules, to create the environment where the players are inspired to do things more complicated and cinematic than just "poke the orc until it dies". Rules for how such actions can be achieved can often be improvised on the spot based on prior precedent or how the GM wants the encounter to flow; often times I just have the player roll for what they want to do before I've even decided what number they need to be shooting for - if they roll a six, there's no need for me to think up modifiers on the spot. If they rolled a two but I thought the action was brilliant/realistic and really wanted to see it happen, I'll let it happen anyways. As long as everyone is having fun, we're playing the game correctly.

I am in favor of dividing gold from XP in many cases, and already use the separate "event phase" in my own games. I also like having critical hits/misses (I use these to determine if, say, a warrior firing a missile weapon into combat accidentally hits his ally!) but prefer to stay on the D6 system as much as possible.

I think the biggest thing that needs working on or could use expansion is the warrior traits ("perks") and skills enhancements, including the creation of new skills. In my game I am using the specialist actions potentially gained between levels as an opportunity to let the players make their warriors more unique, for instance by giving them access to the skills from WHFRP.

Specifically, what I think we need more of are skills/spells/abilities that create interesting effects on the target, which in turn could then be used to create more strategically-interesting battles. This is something that the current edition of D&D does rather well, from what I've seen: area-burst effects and attacks that push models X number of squares in a given direction, for instance. WHQ has some of these but they're not common enough to make them a big part of the game, pushing models off of platforms and into pits and stuff like that...

Would also like to see a lot more "roleplay-y" spells, like Zone of Silence, for instance. I'm considering allowing my Wizard player to pick up several low-casting-level spells essentially for free, just so that he can have a few fun non-combat-non-healing spells like that to use. The more diverse the players' characters, the more imaginative I become as a GM in designing scenarios that will play up those strengths.
27/Nov/2011, 1:35 am Link to this post Send Email to Nachie   Send PM to Nachie Blog
 
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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


In reference to "good Gamemastering" instead of written rules, I would like to clarify a little, because as GM it will help me, and because of the way my mind works. emoticon Here are some reasons for this:

1. It gives a consistent method of monster management -- including a random element as well for some things (like the Monster Behavior and Monster Alignment things).

2. It helps provide consistency in how I treat the players' choices in the game. As even the normal advanced rules (from the RolePlay Book) give plenty of opportunities for me to forget how I have handled special situations in the past, and this experimental rule set will certainly do so as well.

3. Having it all written in the same document will also let me easily share the entire system with anyone -- especially my players -- who wishes to help play-test it -- including, I hope, the possibility of actually doing so without a GM, though as Nachie points out, it will definitely slow the game down to do so.

For my own purposes, my gaming group is already playing at a slow pace (a similar snail's pace as PBEM gaming), and the GM's part will not necessarily take much longer in actual game-play time.

Maybe I would eventually make a version just for the players... Of course, that would probably also depend upon whether the general WHQ community takes any serious interest in this rule set. I suspect this will mostly appeal to a much smaller segment of the WHQers out there.

I DO understand that much of the WHQ appeal has to do with its level of simplicity and fast-paced game play -- at least at lower levels. Remember that things do get rather complicated at higher levels -- unless people ignore many of the monster Special Rules. I have a friend with whom I used to play WHQ. He told me that he liked best to just open the box and start from scratch (the basic game) -- as opposed to using the advanced rules (RolePlay Book) and leveling up and etc....

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In reference to the Fighting Stances, Warhammer Quest already opened that box, sort of, by saying that a player can fight defensively -- which I have seen used rather infrequently in the games I GM -- maybe two or three times (games) by players in my games. I just think it fits well with other aspects of this particular rule set. Fight Aiming in particular is sort of needed in order for a combatant to say (or randomly choose in the case of a monster) that they are targeting a certain part of the enemy's body.

My potential players (or at least some of them) for this type of game like the idea of hitting a part of the target's body for potential extra damage or some disabling effect.

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Critical Hits... I have just had a 'break through' I think in handling the area hit and critical hits (more to come). From what I have seen, apart from a simple rule of extra or minimum amount of damage for a critical hit, the only critical hit tables out there are generally rather complicated or lengthy. I hope by comparison to have a little bit more simple method. I do hope to include various effects to make combat more interesting and realistic.

If anyone knows of and wants to share with me some fairly uncomplicated critical hit tables and/or injury tables, it might assist me further with this project. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 28/Nov/2011, 1:41 am


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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


A set of fan-based Critical Hits rules appeared in Deathblow II by Jason A. Yeung and used the WHQ d6 system.

I'm all for fan-based, home rules, and such. But i think when they change the "feel" of the game dramatically, then you're pretty much doing something else and just using Warhammer Quest tiles.

I just don't know if it's appropriate to associate it with Warhammer Quest or if this is really the forum for it.

Seems like it deserves a board of its own. If everyone posted every variation of tabletop gaming using the WHQ tiles, i think this board could get a little muddy.

As i mentioned, when the game plays more like something other than WHQ, i think it's a good idea to separate it. When i read what this "advanced" version is like, i think of AD&D. I think that most core WHQ gamers are drawn to the game because of the differences of it and AD&D, even those that play the Roleplaying aspects. From my experience, i would call Nachie a typical WHQ Roleplayer and i think he hits perfectly on the attitude and outlook of a WHQ fan.

In that light, when i think of this Board, i think of those fans. I appreciate the fact that you're trying to bridge the gap, so to speak, with fans who use the WHQ tiles and implement their own set of rules. But again, i don't this is how the WHQ Board should be used. Perhaps just a link to another Board so people can check them out. But to highlight, and even dedicate an entire topic thread with updates, information, and screen shots seems to distract from the main focus of this Board - which should be a forum of information and discussion of for Warhammer Quest, the best Dungeon Bash ever created!

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28/Nov/2011, 9:04 am Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


I finally see the real issue here now. If more people respond and say they don't think this topic belongs here, then I will gladly remove it myself.

I must disagree to a great extent though about it no longer being a Warhammer Quest topic. I am still using the same dungeon generation method, same adventures, same Warrior Characteristics, same Damage Dice, Power Phase (with 1D6 for power), same spells, skills, Battle Level Tables, equipment and treasures (though not as frequently/freely obtained), Almost ALL of the Rule Book and RolePlay Book, all the monster Special Rules, all the monster tables, and on and on I could go.

This is like taking several aspects of house rules and putting them all into one custom Warhammer Quest game rule set. Most of the same aspects of house rules ideas I have seen posted throughout this message board.

Read through the Warhammer Quest 2nd edition forum (hosted here) and you will see that they were definitely planning to change the whole game quite a bit.

There are several real fans of WHQ that I play with elsewhere who are not afraid to tell me when I am out of line. Perhaps I can get them to check this out and advise me as well.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 28/Nov/2011, 10:27 am


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posticon Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


That is true about the WHQ fan-based "2nd Edition" that is archived in this forum. Perhaps that would be the place to insert this topic.

To be honest, i never really followed that thread, since i always felt the same way about it!

Leave my WHQ game aloooooone! emoticon emoticon

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28/Nov/2011, 10:44 am Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
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Re: Old Warrior's Advanced Warhammer Quest


quote:

Littlemonk wrote:

That is true about the WHQ fan-based "2nd Edition" that is archived in this forum. Perhaps that would be the place to insert this topic.

To be honest, i never really followed that thread, since i always felt the same way about it!

Leave my WHQ game aloooooone! emoticon emoticon




You are more or less a purist for the WHQ game, whereas I tend to be an experimenter/mad scientist! emoticon However, I DO play many WHQ games without 'corrupting' them with a bunch of house rules. I enjoy the game both ways.

This particular advanced rule set hasn't even been played yet -- not altogether anyway.

Anyway, I will give this some time and think about the idea of moving this topic to either the 2nd edition forum or maybe even the online forum -- since this is going to be play-tested in an online private game (or two or three... emoticon ).

EDIT: I still would like to hear some more opinions, because this really IS a big custom rules project using the WHQ game. emoticon


Last edited by OldWarrior, 28/Nov/2011, 10:52 am


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