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Sir Questalot Profile
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Champion
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Registered: 11-2009
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Overwhelming Toughness


Anybody use a quick and easy rule to limit
Toughness? With no distinction between gold and "xp", it is real easy to buy armour(+2),
warhelm(+2) and shield(+1). Now you have 8/9 Toughness and that doesn't count any magic that may add more! I remember a Dwarf I had with 11 Toughness! No Monster rolling a single d6 for damage could even hurt him. Maybe something tied to Battle-level or Strength would help limit "Overwhelming Toughness". This would be for a GM-less game where it is random and Vomit,Assassinate, etc are not easily added to balance the game. Or is the answer to separate Gold/xp?
24/Aug/2011, 4:41 am Link to this post Send Email to Sir Questalot   Send PM to Sir Questalot
 
Nachie Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


I forget if I had made the rule apply for a to-hit roll, or for a wounding roll, but any time a monster rolls a six it is an automatic one wound deducted from the target. In this way, even a horde of snotlings could eventually overpower a level 10 barbarian, and the warriors have to think of better strategies than just endless combat.

EDIT: I guess upon thinking about it further, it must have been the to-wound roll that did this. In other words, a six always hits and a six always wounds, no matter what the warrior's weapon skill or toughness score.

Last edited by Nachie, 24/Aug/2011, 5:41 am
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GlitchSCG Profile
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Champion
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


That's what I do, if a Monster rolled a 6 damage, then that at least do 1 Wound, even if the target's Toughness would normally dictate no damage. This is in keeping with the "Rule of 1 and 6".
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Amazing Larry Profile
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Hero
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


We also play by this rule. If a 6 is rolled for damage, and no damage can be dealt due to high toughness, the warrior suffers 1 wound anyway.
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Littlemonk Profile
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


I think the problem isn't too much Toughness, it's too many resources to purchase such equipment and still only be fighting low-level Monsters. It's up to the Warriors to balance their training and their purchases while still keeping the game challenging.

In our games we play that if every Warrior can level up, then they must do so before doing anything else in a Settlement.

Also remember the discussion on this thread:

]The Rule of 1 and 6

To be consistent with the "overwhelming Toughness" rule as discussed, you'd have to say that every 1 DOESN'T cause a Wound due to LACK of Toughness!?

---
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God
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


I have mixed feelings about this issue. I certainly agree that the Warriors can become so tough through the use of armour at a low level that the game generally ceases to be challenging. Although, if you use the RolePlay Book monster tables and get the result of 11 or 66 then you roll on the next level up, but this is usually not very frequent.

I am a firm believer in getting better equipment. Yet I see the majority of players in my gaming group going for level 2 as soon as possible, while they usually neglect getting better equipment!

I also tend to think that you cannot have too much protection and certainly NEVER too many Wounds. BUT, I am too nice to the Warriors.

IF someone plays with a GM, then the GM can make the monster events tougher.

IF not playing with a GM, you could use some sort of house rule that if your Warriors of level 1 (or maybe even level 2) have +2 Armour more than starting equipment gives them (just for example), then you will roll on the next level of the monster table every other Monster Event -- or roll 1D6, on 1-3 roll on the higher level table, on 4-6 roll on the current Dungeon Level table.

Another idea for a trigger for such a ruling or similar: make it their title level +1 armour bonus.

Novice would be +2 T from armour
Champion = +3 T from armour
Hero = +4
Lord = +5

OR, maybe just Novice and Champion titles... because I suspect that at Hero and Lord levels they might not need anything to make the monster events more difficult! emoticon

I just recently watched three level 4 Warriors and one of level 5 actually use the Escape Table to run away from a Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer with Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss, Dragon Ogres, and deadly Undead, which included Ghosts (Chill 1) and THREE Wraiths (Chill 2). Chill attacks are instantly fatal and those Warriors (at least two of which are usually considered overpowered) were already somewhat worn down when the Undead arrived.

My opinion of the idea of a minimum of 1 wound is that it might be useful, but I would attach it to a natural 6 to hit (sort of a Critical Hit factor) instead of the damage dice result. But, in doing so, I think you might want to consider a Critical Miss factor for a natural 1 to hit. emoticon

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Nachie Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


There are rules for critical hits (hits on a roll of 6) in one of the Deathblows... issue #2, I think?

As a GM, I always try to balance things out to where the warriors are being challenged. I think high-level dungeons where every encounter is a dragon or a demon or a manticore or whatever are extremely boring and don't lend themselves very well to what you might consider realistic encounters in the Warhammer world. So even when the warriors get up to BL 7 and above, I'm still having them fight Skaven clanrats because that is just the kind of realistic battle that I find more interesting. The only difference is, instead of fighting 2D6 clanrats in a dungeon, they're defending a small town from repeating waves of Skaven from all sides including over 40 clanrats, a handful of rat ogres, a sprinkling of heroes and plague monks and sorcerers, all while Jezzail teams, poison wind globadiers, and warpfire throwers take shots at them. I just keep sending in more waves of Skaven until I feel like the warriors are having a tough enough time to make the game interesting - it's a great way to slowly build up tension since they don't know when the assaults will end, especially as any allied human defenders they may have had with them at the beginning (usually handgunners and militia) will not regenerate as the Skaven do in between waves!

Last edited by Nachie, 25/Aug/2011, 1:40 am
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Nachie Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


Double post like a n00b


Last edited by Nachie, 25/Aug/2011, 1:40 am
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Sir Questalot Profile
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Champion
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


Thanks for all the input! The rule of 6 sounds
good and the level up first idea, too. The crits in Deathblow were for monsters to use against the warriors(I think) but I converted
the tables so both can use itemoticon. For younger players, an automatic wound(for each D6 of damage?) on a roll of 6 to hit sounds good.

 Maybe limiting toughness from all items
considered "Armour" to Strength number? The tougher the Armour, the more it weighs. Any thoughts?
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lord mavik Profile
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Hero
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


I've also been using the rule of 6 doing at least 1 damage.

I also use it if the person hit was able to dodge or parry the blow. So that it does 1 point of damage. Turning that hit into just a 'flesh wound'.

This works both ways, for the players and for the monsters.
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