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QuestingKnight Profile
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Lord
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Registered: 06-2009
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


If a Warrior OR a Monster hits on a natural 6, I've started applying a minimum of 1 point of damage per damage dice that the model normally throws.

I've been quietly playtesting this in a PBEM game I'm running that contains a Knight Panther with a horrendously high Toughness, and a horde of Skeleton spearmen is slowly wearing him down which seems more realistic.

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Questing Knight

Visit the Imperial Vault - Warhammer Quest Rules, Warriors, Monsters and Articles
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Amazing Larry Profile
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Hero
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


What I've been doing with my current group is house-ruled that Warriors can only wear so much armor, until they've reached higher levels.

Levels 1-4 Warrior can only wear 4 points of armor.
Level 5-8 Warrior can wear up to 6 points of armor.
Level 9-10 Warrior can wear up to 8 points of armor.

By level 5, most monsters are rolling 2d6 or more for damage, so this mostly prevents warriors from becoming unhurtable tanks.

Last edited by Amazing Larry, 12/Sep/2011, 2:31 pm
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Littlemonk Profile
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


I really like that, Larry. Simple and sensible, just the way i want my WHQ!

And it goes along with the way i like to distribute Objective Room Treasure (based on Battle-Level).

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Blessed are the curious for they shall have adventures.
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QuestingKnight Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


I like the idea of capping the amount of armour depending on the Warrior's Battle Level, but when that Bloodthirster or Emperor Dragon flaps onto the board section, I've got no problem with a Warrior wearing all the armour in the world!

So I think I would remove any cap at BL 9 and 10 as I think they need all the help they can get :-)

Even at BL5 you are encountering lots of spellcasters and DE assassins and ghosts and even a Cockatrice, so a reasonable amount of armour is OK as the Warrior isn't invulnerable to all attacks.

At level 8, most monsters have multiple damage dice and loads have special rules that ignore armour like skaven assassins. Did I mention the Dragon as well?

How about:
BL1 : 3
BL2 : 4
BL3 : 5
BL4 : 5
BL5 : 6
BL6 : 6
BL7 : 7
BL8 : 8
BL9 : *
BL10: *

Not as easy to remember, I'll admit...

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Questing Knight

Visit the Imperial Vault - Warhammer Quest Rules, Warriors, Monsters and Articles
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Amazing Larry Profile
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Hero
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


Yeah, I don't mind not capping armor at level 9-10. However, using the armor available from the roleplay book, wearing plate armor with a great shield, and a warhelm is maxed out armor that puts you at 8 points. So unless you have a house-ruled armory, 8 points is about as high as it gets. (I dont count magic rings & etc. that increase toughness towards armor points)
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QuestingKnight Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


Very true :-)

I'm thinking that sometimes you get magic treasure that allows more than the normal armour bonus for its type. Items like the Enchanted Shield give +3 Toughness (which I take to be +3 Armour).

Couldn't find another example though :-)

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Questing Knight

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OldWarrior Profile
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God
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


Well, since I already responded to this topic, I will give an extra 2 cents at this time. emoticon

1st Cent -- Not really worried about extra armour! emoticon

There really are so many things that ignore armour, destroy armour, have no consideration at all for armour, or are just so powerful that all the armour a Warrior can get will not prevent his dying... that I just don't think this is as big a problem as some of the rest of you. emoticon

In addition to these things, not very many Warriors can actually wear the heavier armour. I think mostly we are talking about the more tank-like, or potentially tank-like Warriors anyway (Dwarf, Barbarian, Chaos Warrior {sometimes}, Ogre {if it fits, wear it! emoticon }, and some other similar custom and official Warriors).

Furthermore, IF they are loaded up with heavier armour, they often have to deal with negative movement (-1 or -2, depending on the combination; 25 to 50% penalty for most Warriors) and (in the case of wearing Chainmail over other armour) -1 to hit (a huge 17% penalty on 1D6).

There, I got that off my chest! emoticon


2nd Cent -- Some Idea(s) for House Ruling this -- another angle really.

Anyway, while I wonder about adding house rules to limit armour... here I am working on Advanced Warhammer Quest rules myself! While I am not giving here the particulars yet, which are still mush in my brain, this is the concept/theory.

My idea might help someone in their own house rules on this issue. I plan to use a standard (a table really) that shows the area hit on the target. Then, whatever type of armour they might be wearing in that area of their body is what will give them some protection against that particular damage result. Therefore, such a rule set will lend itself to minimizing the amount of good that armour pieces will be able to do for the Warrior (and for monsters too!).

I would suggest some take the Pit Fighter -- or make it the %20-%[sign in to see URL]]Pit Fighter Revised instead! since he has a little bit different area hit chart, which I like a little better than the original emoticon -- and look at the Area Hit chart based upon the 1D6 to hit rolls of the monsters. Then translate this over to all Warriors. So, a hit on the head will only be protected against by the armour (helm) worn on the head, and so on....

In such a system, magical additional Toughness (like from a Ring of Power or from a spell), I highly recommend be allowed to protect (as normal Toughness and NOT be considered armour) against damage taken anywhere on the body. That is the way I handle non-armour magical Toughness bonuses anyway (whatever the rule set).

My advanced rules will have Critical Hit results which can and will bypass some or all armour, and sometimes Toughness too. Enough about my advanced rules, since this is about all that applies to this topic. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 20/Sep/2011, 3:40 am


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Old Warrior

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God bless you, everyone!
20/Sep/2011, 3:38 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Edquest Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


i have seen this before, typical culprits are dwarf, barbarian(well he needs something!), chaos warrior and brettonian knight.

got to be honest though it is a short period of time in which they are able to take advantage of this, at about level 5 they start getting hurt again and once level 7 is hit they are getting panelbeat as much as the rest!

at that point the noble and elf, maybe elf ranger knight, start leaping ahead with dodges/parries/evades elf shield and helm.
being able to entirely ignore a hit is more useful when an enemy is hitting you for 6d6 damage per hit!

(i have a level 10 chaos warrior with a modified toughness+armour of 24...)

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
26/Sep/2011, 1:14 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


quote:

Edquest wrote:

i have seen this before, typical culprits are dwarf, barbarian(well he needs something!), chaos warrior and brettonian knight.

got to be honest though it is a short period of time in which they are able to take advantage of this, at about level 5 they start getting hurt again and once level 7 is hit they are getting panelbeat as much as the rest!

at that point the noble and elf, maybe elf ranger knight, start leaping ahead with dodges/parries/evades elf shield and helm.
being able to entirely ignore a hit is more useful when an enemy is hitting you for 6d6 damage per hit!

(i have a level 10 chaos warrior with a modified toughness+armour of 24...)



I have often thought lately that the Elf is one of the most under-equipped characters in the games I GM. Most often the players in my games go for that 'ultimate goal' of gaining level 2 before any other considerations when they first arrive at a town or city with enough gold and/or experience to train. I am of the opinion -- especially in the case of the Elf -- that they would do well to get at least one or two pieces of Elf equipment, at least an Elf Shield! emoticon

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Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
26/Sep/2011, 2:10 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Edquest Profile
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Lord
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Re: Overwhelming Toughness


i've always found that scrabbling for that level up is most useful, but yeah ignoring one hit a round is very nice. especially when you have a WS of 4 so are quite hard tot hit anyway.

depends on if you can do both i suppose!!

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
26/Sep/2011, 2:12 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 


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