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Nachie Profile
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Lord

Registered: 08-2011
Posts: 102
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Reloading Pistols


How do y'all deal with reloading black powder weapons in WHQ?

For instance, the rules for the Brace of Pistols read: each pistol may make 1 shot every other turn (takes one turn to reload).

This kinda makes it sound like a warrior can run around blasting every turn, shooting one pistol and then assuming that by the next turn the other pistol was automatically already reloaded and ready to fire. If that's how the rule is meant to be played, then that's fine with me. But how do you deal with it?

To me it seems that a warrior would have to not be pinned, and should have to declare that they are going to spend a turn reloading their weapon, and then cannot do anything else for that turn except move over open ground. So then that means that a warrior with a loaded brace of pistols could realistically spend the first two turns of combat shooting, but then would probably have to get stuck in by the third turn. Perhaps I should allow up to two powder weapons to be reloaded in one turn, again if the warrior is not pinned in combat and does nothing else for that turn except move.

I have a Witch Hunter in the party I'm starting up, so it's important to me to get this right from day one. I'm interested in realism, but also in balance. If adding this level of complexity to the reloading process nerfs blackpowder weapons too badly, then I guess the "automatic reload" thing would be fine.
14/Sep/2011, 12:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nachie   Send PM to Nachie Blog
 
QuestingKnight Profile
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Lord

Registered: 06-2009
Posts: 79
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Re: Reloading Pistols


You must always be free of pinning and not adjacent to a Monster when firing a missile weapon, unless the weapon description states otherwise.

Treat the Witch Hunter's Pistol exactly as it says on the card (which is different to the rules for reloading the Noble's Duelling Pistol, if memory serves), but the rules for reloading the items in the Gunsmith are a little vague.

My gaming group always play that you must spend a turn reloading and during that time you can't do anything else, although it seams reasonable that you could move that turn.

Having said that, in Warhammer pistols are described as being quick to reload and fire, and therefore do not impose a 'move or fire' rule, unlike larger handguns. So maybe they should be fired every other turn.

Ihope I made things as clear as mud for you :-)

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Questing Knight

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14/Sep/2011, 6:15 pm Link to this post Send Email to QuestingKnight   Send PM to QuestingKnight
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1273
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Re: Reloading Pistols


I think they were too unclear on these details.

Some say that you can shoot one pistol (of Brace of Pistols) per turn and then must spend one turn to reload one of them (two turns to reload both!).

Here is my perspective -- just for general gameplay. emoticon

I personally don't have a problem saying that they can shoot both pistols in the same turn and then spend one turn reloading both of them. emoticon

To me, much of the advantage is lost (for dishing out so much gold for the Brace of Pistols) if they have to spend so much time reloading. They might kill one or two monsters with the two shots, but have no further killing value until AFTER reloading. emoticon But, the common sword can death-blow through several monsters (sometimes) AND can be used to attack as many times as the Warrior has Attacks.

I agree that not being adjacent to a monster is a MUST for being able to reload. emoticon

Last edited by OldWarrior, 14/Sep/2011, 8:12 pm


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14/Sep/2011, 8:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Nachie Profile
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Lord

Registered: 08-2011
Posts: 102
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Re: Reloading Pistols


Ah yes, I should have looked more closely at the Witch Hunter rules:

quote:

It takes a whole turn to reload, during which time the Witch Hunter may do nothing else. The pistol may not be reloaded while there are monsters on the same board section.



So I am just going to use that for ALL black powder weapons (musket as well). The Noble's pistol rules aren't different per se, just less detailed, I think. I'll let the WH move and reload one pistol, or stay put and reload up to two in a turn. Reloading a musket will always take a whole turn without moving, and nothing else can be reloaded in the same turn.

Meanwhile, not sure what to do about the "on the same board section" rule. Makes sense in a cramped dungeon, but I like to do a lot of outdoor quests and usually I interpret "on the same board section" rules as meaning "within 12 inches". Unfortunately this doesn't really fix the Witch Hunter, since in WHFB you can still reload your weapons in those conditions, and it doesn't make sense that a warrior wouldn't be able to. I may drop the rule altogether or perhaps change it to you cannot reload this turn if there is another warrior in hand to hand combat within 12" of you. Thoughts?
14/Sep/2011, 11:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nachie   Send PM to Nachie Blog
 
lord mavik Profile
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Hero

Registered: 08-2011
Posts: 45
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Re: Reloading Pistols


here's something else to think about -

The Witchhunter pistol only does +5 damage.

The 'Brace of Pistols' from the gunsmith does +6 damage.

Which do you use?


Then I had a witchhunter in one of my games always complaining about the lack of 'magic' pistols. That warriors with magic bows or magic throwing weapons always had ended up doing more damage then the pistols do.

I ended up making a home rule (actually stole it from another game) that black powder weapons can keep rolling and adding to their damage dice whenever a natural 6 is rolled for damage.

This kind of balanced out the cost of paying for the powder & shot the warrior using the blackpowder weapons and the damage they can do with what the other warriors could get with their 'magical' distance attacks.
15/Sep/2011, 12:17 am Link to this post Send Email to lord mavik   Send PM to lord mavik Blog
 
Sardaukar74 Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2008
Posts: 87
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Re: Reloading Pistols


I've replaced the Witchhunter's pistol with the Dueling pistol of the Imperial noble. It's a deadly weapon (ST +6) especially for closer distances (no BS roll required!). Believe me, your witchhunting friend won't complain any longer. I don't really see a need for magical blackpowder weapons.

And this is the way we handle the reloading issue: It takes 1 turn in which the warrior (may not be pinned) can not attack but move. Brace of pistols take 2 turns to reload if both have been fired.

Last edited by Sardaukar74, 15/Sep/2011, 6:26 pm
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Littlemonk Profile
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Administrator

Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 431
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Re: Reloading Pistols


We use the following:

The Pistol has a range of 6 and causes 1D6+5 Wounds. It takes one turn to reload during which the Warrior may not Move or Attack. The pistol may not be reloaded if there are Monsters on the same Board Section.

This makes the Pistol & Shot Objective Room Treasure worth receiving since it is Strength 6. But we play that this particular Pistol is a Magical Item.

And the brace of pistols are now worth buying as well (Strength 6 also). We treat the Brace of Pistols as the ONLY time you can use two pistols (as they are specially made for a right and left hand). And it only takes 1 round to reload BOTH pistols. That's what makes them so valuable.

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16/Sep/2011, 12:27 am Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
Nachie Profile
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Lord

Registered: 08-2011
Posts: 102
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Re: Reloading Pistols


While we're at it, anyone know what the powder weapons ranges are in WHFB/Mordheim?

Pistol, handgun/rifle, and Hochland Long Rifle? Plus any others I might be forgetting?
16/Sep/2011, 12:46 am Link to this post Send Email to Nachie   Send PM to Nachie Blog
 
QuestingKnight Profile
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Lord

Registered: 06-2009
Posts: 79
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Re: Reloading Pistols


In Warhammer fantasy:

Pistol: Range 6", S4, Armour Piercing (ignores 1 point of armour).
Brace of Pistols: Range 6", S4, Armour Piercing, Multiple Shots (may fire both pistols at -1 To Hit).
Handgun: Range 24", S4, Armour Piercing
Hochland Longrifle: Range 36", S4, Armour Piercing, Scientific Precision (may always target a different unit to the rest of the regiment, may also target a specific model within a unit at -1 To Hit)

There are also rules for grenade launchers, pidgeon bombs and repeater pistols.

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Questing Knight

Visit the Imperial Vault - Warhammer Quest Rules, Warriors, Monsters and Articles
16/Sep/2011, 6:39 pm Link to this post Send Email to QuestingKnight   Send PM to QuestingKnight
 
QuestingKnight Profile
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Lord

Registered: 06-2009
Posts: 79
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Re: Reloading Pistols


Just in case it helps those who say that there needs to be more black-powder treasure, I've been working on this updated version of the Gunsmith for a while:

http://imperialvault.co.uk/warhammer-quest-special-location/gunsmith/

It's not finished, I still want to include rules for 'upgrades' like scopes, bayonets and so on.

In summary, the following items are available there:

Blunderbuss
Dwarf-Made Handgun
Dwarf-Made Pistol
Gunpowder
Handgun
Heavy Pistol
Katara Pistol
Light Pistol
Longrifle
Musket
Pistol
Repeating Pistol
Shot
Superior Shot

In my rules, light pistols are weaker than pistols but may be fired every turn.

The Longrifle and musket are both more powerful than pistols, whereas the handgun is about as powerful with a longer range.

I think I will include a standard clarification of the rules for reloading, like:

Reload(n)
Takes n turns to reload. For example, a Repeating Pistol has Reload (1d3), and takes 1d3 turns to reload. Once this weapon is used, it may not be used again until reloaded. A supply of the relevant ammunition (e.g. shot and powder for a pistol or musket). For each turn spent reloading, a Warrior must not be adjacent to a Monster after their movement is over, and may not perform any other actions that turn apart from move.

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Questing Knight

Visit the Imperial Vault - Warhammer Quest Rules, Warriors, Monsters and Articles
16/Sep/2011, 7:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to QuestingKnight   Send PM to QuestingKnight
 


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