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Re: A new kinda quest.


quote:

mearl8252 wrote:

I was actually wanting to stay away from the idea of every team/player starting in a different location. I see it as a kinda team up at first until everything starts getting deep then it's every man for him self.
The cards in hand is a good idea that has got something going for it but I'll have to think about how to use it correctly.

Thought on a base statline for a starting player.
Wounds: 1d6+7
Move: 4
WS:3
BS:4+ or 5+ ? leaning toward 4+
Str:3
Tough:3
Init:4
Att:1
Equipment: healing potion of some sort, rope, lantern. It would be cool if a player losses his lantern thus forcing him to follow another player.
Pinning: I want to say 5+ but somethings telling me a easier pinning check would cause a lot of running with little fighting so probably a 6+
Dodge: 6+



Oh, so you want sort of generic characters and then they get to add more abilities and equipment as they progress through the game...(?)

I think most of the stats you give are average, which I also think is good.

I would recommend 5+ for Escape Pinning (successful only about 33% of the time), because otherwise, Warriors can almost never seem to escape pinning when they need to. emoticon Also, if you use the monster stats as given in the original game, then most monsters will be able to catch the Warriors -- or at least be able to maintain a good chase -- even if they decide to run.

Initiative 4 seems slightly high (3 probably is average), BUT it might be you are wanting to give them a little better chance against some traps and etc... That might be a good thing, especially if you wish to emphasize combat more than non-combat things. Generally, Initiative 4 would give a Warrior a 50% chance to pass an Initiative-based test if there is no modifier to the test (assuming for this game you would probably not be using the character class +/- RolePlay modifiers).

So, just to keep my own mind on track as I follow your ideas, you want to have a party of Warriors starting out together who will later turn on one another in selfish pursuit of loot, glory, or whatever.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 11/Feb/2014, 9:26 am


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11/Feb/2014, 6:41 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Dethhead Profile
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Re: A new kinda quest.


OldWarrior- I didn't take any offense. It's all just for fun around here. If it wasn't, then this wouldn't be my type of game or forum, lol.
11/Feb/2014, 11:24 am Link to this post Send Email to Dethhead   Send PM to Dethhead Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
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Re: A new kinda quest.


quote:

Dethhead wrote:

OldWarrior- I didn't take any offense. It's all just for fun around here. If it wasn't, then this wouldn't be my type of game or forum, lol.



Excellent! This is exactly the atmosphere I intend to help maintain here.

As I recently told someone who was talking about a too-serious player of Magic The Gathering card game, "It is only a game." emoticon

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11/Feb/2014, 12:19 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
mearl8252 Profile
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Re: A new kinda quest.


quote:

Oh, so you want sort of generic characters and then they get to add more abilities and equipment as they progress through the game...(?)



You got [sign in to see URL] everyone starts with the same stats then no unbalance [sign in to see URL]?

quote:

I think most of the stats you give are average, which I also think is good.

I would recommend 5+ for Escape Pinning (successful only about 33% of the time), because otherwise, Warriors can almost never seem to escape pinning when they need to. emoticon Also, if you use the monster stats as given in the original game, then most monsters will be able to catch the Warriors -- or at least be able to maintain a good chase -- even if they decide to run.



Sounds good to me.

quote:

Initiative 4 seems slightly high (3 probably is average), BUT it might be you are wanting to give them a little better chance against some traps and etc... That might be a good thing, especially if you wish to emphasize combat more than non-combat things. Generally, Initiative 4 would give a Warrior a 50% chance to pass an Initiative-based test if there is no modifier to the test (assuming for this game you would probably not be using the character class +/- RolePlay modifiers).



This also sounds good to me.

quote:

So, just to keep my own mind on track as I follow your ideas, you want to have a party of Warriors starting out together who will later turn on one another in selfish pursuit of loot, glory, or whatever.



That just about sums it up though there is all kinds of ways to go about it.
11/Feb/2014, 7:34 pm Link to this post Send Email to mearl8252   Send PM to mearl8252 Blog
 
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Re: A new kinda quest.


You bring up an interesting point about game balance: if all the Warriors start out with the exact same stats, then it is balanced, at least as the Warriors relate to one another. However, it is the difference in characters (and monsters for that matter) which makes the game more interesting.

So, when we try to achieve balance, it is often by making characters stronger in certain ways and weaker in other ways to attempt to prevent the stronger areas from making the character unbalanced. I do not always think that this can be entirely successful, at least not to everyone's satisfaction. BUT, you cannot please everyone all the time either. emoticon

Maybe I will start another topic about game balance in the near future to get different people's perspective on it.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 12/Feb/2014, 2:49 am


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Re: A new kinda quest.


What about modifying for race? Surely an Elf by nature would have better Initiative than a Dwarf. A Dwarf would have more Toughness than a Human. A Norse Barbarian would be stronger than an Imperial Noble from Estalia.

Then there is the same idea in regards to Wounds. An average Barbarian would have more Wounds than an average Wizard.

Then there is the same idea with regards to Profession/Class. A Trollslayer would have more Willpower than an Elf. A Wardancer would be far better using a weapon than a Warrior Priest. An Elf would be so much better at using a ranged weapon than a Bretonnian Knight.

Another thing is the fact that Warhammer Quest is unique in the sense that it purposely does not pit the Warriors against each other, but instead uses teamwork (everyone using different skills) to achieve goals. What's the point of having them fighting each other? They can't survive without each other. And why would you be trusting your companions one minute, but then turning on each other the next?

I don't think this concept would ever work with Warhammer Quest. You'd have to re-write practically everything. From exploring the Dungeon, to Events and how they occur, to how Monsters appear and fight, to how items and equipment work, to how Warriors train and advance, to being 'Lost in the Dark' without a light source. Seems an impossible task and a balancing and juggling nightmare. It's hard enough to keep the game balanced as it already is.

You definitely have your work cut out for you! But does sound like a whole different game. You could pretty much use the Dungeon Cards and Boards, but you'll have to re-write everything else.

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Re: A new kinda quest.


quote:

What about modifying for race? Surely an Elf by nature would have better Initiative than a Dwarf. A Dwarf would have more Toughness than a Human. A Norse Barbarian would be stronger than an Imperial Noble from Estalia.



I am a big fan of balance which is a hard thing to get right in any game with different selections of characters/race/army whatever. In pretty much every game you play people will go for one race of another do to its advantages ether late or early game except those how play for fun or fluff. The one thing I'll admit to with a single selection like checkers for example is it will get boring over time but if every checker had the chance to change into something else randomly like a card draw wouldn't that be cool. This is probably not coming across very good I'll stop emoticon

quote:

Another thing is the fact that Warhammer Quest is unique in the sense that it purposely does not pit the Warriors against each other, but instead uses teamwork (everyone using different skills) to achieve goals. What's the point of having them fighting each other? They can't survive without each other. And why would you be trusting your companions one minute, but then turning on each other the next?



Actually I've came across a few fluff/lore short stories about this very thing do to the creation of new characters like vampire,minotaur, and necromancer. The last one I remember reading was a group waiting on a necromancer to finish his ritual to help them and when they're attacked they all try to protect the necromancer. The story leaves you on the last thought of the necromancer saying something like "you're lives will be of no concern to me when I finish my task" not exact words but you get the point. Everyone has there own agenda and when you add in the little side tasks I listed in my 2nd thought then not everyone will be looking to kill the team.
Something just came to me as I wrote this just now. Maybe every players agenda, quest, win condition doesn't have to be to find the "object" and make it out. How about only one player has it and the others all have a random objective so no one really knows who is the trader,friend, or whatever you can think of that sounds good. If you play like this you could just play a normal WHQ game but at the end of the dungeon every ones real agenda comes out and so you could play with any race/character.

quote:

You definitely have your work cut out for you! But does sound like a whole different game. You could pretty much use the Dungeon Cards and Boards, but you'll have to re-write everything else.


     

I think with just the rules from my first post I could try this.. in fact I was going to last sunday but me and my fellow quest'es are hooked on the standard quest for now since we all made it to level 2 for the first time.
12/Feb/2014, 9:10 am Link to this post Send Email to mearl8252   Send PM to mearl8252 Blog
 
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Re: A new kinda quest.


quote:

You bring up an interesting point about game balance: if all the Warriors start out with the exact same stats, then it is balanced, at least as the Warriors relate to one another. However, it is the difference in characters (and monsters for that matter) which makes the game more interesting.

So, when we try to achieve balance, it is often by making characters stronger in certain ways and weaker in other ways to attempt to prevent the stronger areas from making the character unbalanced. I do not always think that this can be entirely successful, at least not to everyone's satisfaction. BUT, you cannot please everyone all the time either. emoticon

Maybe I will start another topic about game balance in the near future to get different people's perspective on it.



Balance is an illusion to me. If you have two different races with nothing added weapons,gear,skills just he jumps higher he's faster and the game mechanics work with it sure but when you start adding in those weapons,gear,skills, and levels the balance issue becomes an ever expanding pyramid of rules and regulations with every single new piece added.
12/Feb/2014, 9:24 am Link to this post Send Email to mearl8252   Send PM to mearl8252 Blog
 
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Re: A new kinda quest.


I think at least two concepts here are rather subjective in nature: balance and the point at which WHQ should no longer be called WHQ. I assume most will know what I mean by subjective: meaning that it is very much open to the individual's opinion/judgment.

I have often thought balance is sometimes overrated. Most of us will agree that the Pit Fighter is overpowered, but many of us still love to play the game using the original, unmodified Pit Fighter. Still others insist on using at least one or two house rules to tone him down. emoticon

The matter of when the game should no longer be called Warhammer Quest... Well, I think the more rules that are modified, removed, and/or added to the game the greater number of people you will find insist on "this game is NOT Warhammer Quest any more". Of course, it still might be enjoyable to the players, but just don't call it WHQ, or you are a heretic! lol.

I am just trying to make a point. I moved my own Advanced WHQ topic out of this WHQ forum into the pretty-much dead WHQ 2nd Ed. forum for this very reason. No one here liked to think of it as WHQ anymore -- unless they just did not post to voice their opinion.

On the matter of player versus player WHQ, just that particular concept by itself makes the use of WHQ to be a great stretch -- yet still, this is a matter of opinion. Littlemonk is very right that this game is designed to be a cooperative team-effort type of game.

That being said, I have played in and GMed some WHQ-based games in which we have played player-versus-player. In some cases, there were also monster events, but in others -- like in my own WHQ Mortal Combat games -- it was only Warrior versus Warrior. BUT, we still used most of the normal WHQ combat game mechanics and the Warriors' rules, only modifying a few things to make the games work as intended.

The player versus player games were fun. In some cases, there was a bit of work to do to get the rules hammered out into more or less clear and simple exceptions to the normal rules. In other cases, there were just a few guidelines that had to be given to structure the game. Also, I don't think we played in any way where exploration was involved. The game map was usually entirely revealed -- designed by a GM.

EDIT: In my WHQ Mortal Combat games, having a GM meant that I could rule as needed -- like a referee -- whenever a particular issue came up. I would then add the ruling to that type of game's wiki for future easy reference.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 12/Feb/2014, 6:01 pm


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