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Lord
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Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Bretonnian Knight


**I am not asking for derogatory or any other comments about GW and the Studio, their alleged failings and/or their alleged lack of foresight in this.
Keep those to yourself or at least in your own threads.**
Good to go?
Hope so.

I have some questions based off of some players new to our mountain fastness and the Bretonnian Knight booklet.

In the booklet in the Basic/Starting section, it reads:

Page 3-4
WEAPONS
¶The Questing Knight has sworn an oath to always fight in a fair and just manner. As a result, he will never use any form of missile weapon, but will always seek to engage his foe in hand-to-hand combat.
¶The Knight starts the game with a mighty Broadsword. When he wields this, it adds +3 to his Strength for determining Wounds, making a total of 1D6 + 6 Wounds. The Knight is trained from youth to wield the Broadsword, so does not suffer any to hit penalty as other Warriors would.
¶Wielding the Broadsword while wearing Knightly Armour is very tiring, and if the Knight strikes and kills a monster with one blow, the death-blow is resolved as follows. If the death-blow hits and kills the next monster, it will carry on as usual. However, if it continues against the next monster, and the beast has a Toughness 3 or more, the Knight counts -1 on his next to hit roll, before resolving damage as usual. If this kills the monster, the Knight's to hit roll against the next monster in the way of his death-blow is made at -2, and so on (-3, -4, etc). Any monster in the sequence with a Toughness less than 3 does not impose a penalty.

ARMOUR
¶The Knight wears Knightly Armour, which gives + 1 Toughness, and carries a Shield, for a further + 1 Toughness (so the total protection of the Knight's armour is +2 Toughness). He may wear certain Items of magical armour, specifically a helm or a shield, but he will not exchange his Knightly Armour for another suit.


In the Advanced Rules it reads:
Page 5
KNIGHTS AND TREASURE
¶The Knight may use a weapon other than the Broadsword as long as it is either a sword, an axe or a mace. It is dishonourable for the Knight to use missile weapons. magic other than magical hand-to-hand weapons, magic armour or a healing potion.



I have made my adjudications for the group based on my WHQ experience, but I am looking for additional opinions.
Q1: The new players say that a BKnight cannot use the Boots of Tzchak because the rules say nothing about magic boots/furs and so on.
Q2: The new players say the Advanced rules allow for the the BKnight to wear the Armour of Dargan and so forth since the advanced rules say so.
Q3: The new players say the BKnight cannot actually use any other weapon than the Mighty Broadsword because the Starting Rules say so.
Q4 and so on: I wrote them down in order to not forget, but now I have misplaced the paper they were written on.

If you like, you can add here any quirks you have found some players have with the Bretonnian Knight.
Just keep the "GW Slaps" out of the posting.

And finally, I have my own question:
Where do you find the Knightly Flail?
The Whirling Flail skill speaks of it on page 18, but I must have missed where you can acquire it.

Thank you for your replies in advance.
Again, I ask you to please keep them about the character and not GW or the Studio.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
19/Jun/2014, 5:04 pm Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


I have one point of clarification, in my opinion, about page 5, the advanced rules quote. When it says "magic armour", I think that it was meant to include (or allow for) what the basic rules state as "Items of magic armour, specifically a helm or a shield," and not necessarily were they meaning to overturn (or overrule) the part that says, "but he will not exchange his Knightly Armour for another suit".

This is one place where I think it would have been better to reiterate the exact wording of the basic rules in reference to the body armour restriction. (This is not a slam, and not meant to be derogatory towards the game designers, studio and etc. I would make the same comments had I written the rules myself. emoticon )

I personally would have preferred that the Bretonnian Knight be allowed to wear all sorts of magical "suits of armour" and even to wear some of the common body armour found in the shops. BUT, this paragraph is NOT an answer to Warrior Monk's questions and observations, AND, I mention my preference here just to show that my own preference is different than what I understand the rules to say.

Later on, I hope to reread the Bretonnian Knight's rules in an attempt to find anything more on Warrior monk's questions. Maybe some others, who have played this character more than I have, would be able to answer with greater certainty...

EDIT: I have always thought that the restriction about only wearing his knightly armour (body armour) and no other was due to trying to keep the Bretonnian Knight balanced, even though the restriction is couched in the concept of honour.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 20/Jun/2014, 1:26 am


---
Old Warrior

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19/Jun/2014, 11:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Edquest Profile
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Lord
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


from the bits you have quoted the knight can use a sword, axe or a mace.

I *may* allow any hand to hand weapon as that is what I think was intended, but this is not what the rule is as written.

the armour I think is pretty clear from what You have quoted: he can specifically wear armour that is a shield or helm.

as for the boots: the rules specify what is different about the Warrior in question (weapons and armour as above)
they cannot specify every single item he cannot use. I would think the boots are allowed so long as they are not a weapon (boots of kicking or whatever would be right
out)

I would think the whirling flail skill grants the flail but books are not to hand now.
(played a knight to around level 7 or 8. a good, fun warrior with reasonably solid support due to hit powers and immunity to Fear reasonably early once you get a weapon enabling you to kill high gold enemies on your own)

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
21/Jun/2014, 4:15 pm Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


Thank you EdQuest for you input!

It supplies me with food for thought, which I truly appreciate,
AND
another opinion of someone, who has played a while, to show the persons new to the group.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
22/Jun/2014, 3:26 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
Aroven Profile
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Novice
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


He actually seems clearer to me than a few of the others:

Weapons – he may use any sword, axe or mace, taken from “The Knight may use a weapon other than the Broadsword as long as it is either a sword, an axe or a mace”. Personally I’m of the same inclination as Edquest and would say that the emphasis in the rules of not using a ranged weapon gives enough indication that the intent of the designer was that the knight can use any melee weapon (“he will never use any form of missile weapon, but will always seek to engage his foe in hand-to-hand combat” and “It is dishonourable for the Knight to use missile weapons”

Armour – he may use any shield or helmet, but can never change his suit for anything other than the starting knightly armour, taken from the combination of “He may wear certain Items of magical armour, specifically a helm or a shield” and “It is dishonourable for the Knight to use missile weapons, magic other than magical hand-to-hand weapons, magic armour or a healing potion.” clearly meaning that magical armour refers to helm or shield, along with “he will not exchange his Knightly Armour for another suit” meaning he can never use any suit of armour other than his starting Knightly Armour.

My take on your examples:
1. He can’t use the boots as they fall under “magic other than magical hand-to-hand weapons, magic armour or a healing potion” (same goes for any item that isn’t a melee weapon, piece of armour that doesn’t replace the Knightly Armour or health potion).
2. He can’t wear the Armour of Dargan as that would contradict “he will not exchange his Knightly Armour for another suit” (same goes for any other suit of armour).
3. He can use weapons other than the starting broadsword so long as they don’t break the rule of ““It is dishonourable for the Knight to use missile weapons” ie they are melee weapons.
4/Dec/2014, 3:32 am Link to this post Send Email to Aroven   Send PM to Aroven Blog
 
Edquest Profile
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Lord
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


shame about the armour of Dargan though.

best armour for a frontline character, at least until the very high levels when every enemy has a magic weapon!

armour of Taakan (I think) is also a great one for this!

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
7/Dec/2014, 12:59 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


Aroven, welcome to the forums.
Thank you for your take.
It has provided food for thought.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
22/Dec/2014, 12:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 


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