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Lord
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Re: How do firebombs work?


Wow, this thread is certainly a "can of worms"!

I can certainly tell Ehstevey that you are an enthusiastic WHQ player.
You try to pack as much into a turn as you can.
I, like Little Monk, have just a few concerns.

First, the Lucky Talisman.
Little Monk is right - it is to be used on only a single attack.
It is an abuse (aka A Rules Lawyer tactic) that Andy et al did not foresee to say the Talisman applies to any subsequent attacks generated by the selected attack.
My 15yo son says it would be a similar abuse (aka A Rules Lawyer tactic) using the Lucky Talisman with the Repeating Pistol in the manner you related here.

Second, the Firebomb.
1) Where the heck does it say that firebombs are magical?
They are Dwarf tech with a fire rune to enhance the tech.
"magical firebombs" - no such animal;
If firebombs were magical, so then would be Dwarf artillery pieces and gyrocopters which we all know are not.
Dwarf tech is indeed just that - tech;
2) Come on, we all know that the "any time" phrase means any time in the Warrior's Phase.
Again, my 15yo son points out that it is the Letter of the Rules versus the Spirit of Rules (aka A Rules Lawyer tactic) to say otherwise;
3) Yes, a firebomb is NOT a missile weapon.
Most such are specified as such and the rest are common sense.
A firebomb is like a grenade and the same reasonable sense should be used for both;
4) Yes, you can unload the whole packet at once.
Stretches the reality of the rules, but does not break it.
Furthermore, in years past, I have seen Ian P. unload with six of them at once.

Third, Hammer of Spite.
Wow, I have never heard of anyone using the Hammer like you have here Ehstevey.
The Hammer must be used when the monster in question is placed.
You cannot deploy the Hammer on a monster if technically there is a body guard unit being placed at the same time.
Moreover, you cannot deploy another weapon (firebombs) and then use the Hammer!

Fourth, the Rune of Death.
We just had a discussion on this forum that dealt with whether or not a spike was a blade and thereby have runes burned into it.
I believe I have argued into submission, those who chose to participate in that thread, that you could indeed have runes burnt into a spike weapon with my real world examples of blades that are simply hilted spikes.
Unfortunately Ehstevey, the runic hammers of the Dwarven empire in the Old World never made it into WHQ.
As of this one and only official edition of WHQ, there is no such animal.
Let me say here that a house rule for such might be good where you play; just do not expect anyone anywhere else to let you do so when you go play with them in their part of the sandbox.
Okay?

Fifth, the Hell Mace.
You are using an Ogre wielding both the Hammer of Spite and the Hell Mace, correct?
Then no, no and heck no!
Am I missing a Sure-Handed skill with the Ogre?
The only Warrior that could use the Hammer and the Mace during the same Warrior Phase would be the Pit Fighter and ONLY after he had learned the Sure-Handed skill.
With the Rapid Fire Bracelets, you can turn a noble or dwarf into a "Two-Gun Sam", but there is nothing I can remember right at this moment that can sure hand an Ogre.
Additionally, the Hell Mace can add two attacks to your number of attacks if and only if you are using it as your weapon for the turn.
You most certainly are not using the Mace as such if you are already using the Hammer of Spite.
Remember, the Hell Mace is NOT the Bladed Boots, the Fanged Death Helm, the Boots of Battle, the Spear, the Noble's Dagger or any other item like unto these.
The Hell Mace's attacks are not written as "extra" or "in addition" attacks like with the aforementioned items.
Instead, it is exactly like the Chaos Warrior's Hellblade (except it only adds two more attacks rather than doubling them) IF and only IF that is your WEAPON in this Warrior's Phase.

In conclusion Ehstevey, I can honestly say your postings here were ... original.
You appear to be a passionate WHQ player which is good, but you appear to focus on how you and your particular character in the party can succeed the most and over your fellow party members, which is a bit less desirable.

You certainly have done one amazing thing here Ehstevey - you have gotten Little Monk and I to publicly agree repeatedly in a single thread.

Little Monk is completely right Ehstevey when he wrote:
quote:

Whenever you see a "cheat" in the game, I recommend to re-examine the items and rules carefully. It usually means that you're missing something important. It is my experience that people who usually exploit these type of scenarios are often playing wrong. I have been guilty of this on numerous occasions.

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.


Ehstevey, I been gaming in general since the early-to-mid 1970s & playing WHQ since 1995, and I wholeheartedly concur with this statement of Littlemonk's.
Have fun anyway!

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
2/Feb/2015, 2:17 pm Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
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Re: How do firebombs work?


quote:

Warrior Monk wrote:

Fifth, the Hell Mace.
You are using an Ogre wielding both the Hammer of Spite and the Hell Mace, correct?
Then no, no and heck no!...

...You most certainly are not using the Mace as such if you are already using the Hammer of Spite.



 Ehstevey is correct, however, that it is entirely possible to "follow up" with the Hell Mace since the Hammer of Spite would be used in an Ambush Attack during the placing of Monsters (in the Monsters' Phase), and the Mace could be used in the Warriors' Phase on the following turn.



Last edited by Littlemonk, 3/Feb/2015, 8:07 am


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God
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Re: How do firebombs work?


Well, this is one of the most thorough discussions I have seen lately.

I am sometimes surprised at how easily we can forget some of the rules. Even when I usually think of myself as a person who more thoroughly researches the rules than the average player, I am at times caught off guard on rules questions -- like on this current subject.

Interesting point Warrior Monk makes about the Dwarf hammers with runes NOT getting into Warhammer Quest officially. In my gaming circle, some custom rules are sometimes used which allow runes on weapons other than axes (especially on hammers). This is partly because of some wanting to integrate more recent and/or more complete Warhammer Fantasy lore and background info into Warhammer Quest.

But, back to firebombs, I also sort of think of them as grenades, and I certainly do not think of them as magical. They are a rather expensive item too (imagine spending 100 gold to kill four Giant Bats or even four normal goblins!), being consumable as they are, but I can see them as getting back more than the gold spent on them when used to help tip the balance in bringing down the more valuable monsters (using two or three to kill four daemons each worth 200 gold for instance).

Last edited by OldWarrior, 2/Feb/2015, 4:16 pm


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Re: How do firebombs work?


I meant using the Mace as a follow-up during the actual warrior's phase and not the ambush phase. We didn't even get that far as I rolled 5+ to hit with both attacks so it was a lot of overkill.

I don't think firebombs are a weapon in any case, they follow none of the rules for weapons and I cannot see any sort of overt intent to do so in their writing, function or otherwise.

Generally speaking, WHQ is unfair enough as is, so in the group we tend to take whatever edge we can within reason. In this case it was particularly hilarious to see a blast of fire followed by an Araby Ogre appearing from nowhere and HASSAN CHOP! the dread king is taken out (having gotten the event before with -1 to our objective room encounter.

Furthermore, didn't even get to keep the double gold from the kill since I rolled a 1 after clearing the room :P

We'll mull over it a bit more (given their relative rarity, limitations and such). Probably won't come up again.

That's well behind us and now I'm getting 1,500g+ from the alehouse every settlement due to the Drink skill. Ogres are amazing, especially when you tag along a druid for double movement shenanigans (throw warrior + portal). Highly rate them until you start rolling 11 or 66 on those encounter tables, then you'll be praying someone has luck left.
2/Feb/2015, 5:29 pm Link to this post Send Email to Ehstevey   Send PM to Ehstevey Blog
 
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Lord
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Re: How do firebombs work?


quote:

Ehstevey wrote:
I meant using the Mace as a follow-up during the actual warrior's phase and not the ambush phase. We didn't even get that far as I rolled 5+ to hit with both attacks so it was a lot of overkill.


Ehstevey, my understanding, after reviewing the card, with the Hammer of Spite is that you are stuck with it as your weapon until you 1) Kill the monster; 2) It kills you; or 3) You flee, escape, withdraw, whatever.
As long as you are in combat in that room, your guy is using the Hammer until one of the three ends.
So there is no Hell Mace unless you have some sort of sure hand skill.
The Hammer of Spite requires commitment.
quote:

Ehstevey wrote:
I don't think firebombs are a weapon in any case, they follow none of the rules for weapons and I cannot see any sort of overt intent to do so in their writing, function or otherwise.


They are not a weapon?!?
My Dwarf Warriors think you must be grobi-kin. emoticon

Firebombs kill and/or maim the bad guys just like weapons.
Your Dwarves can buy them at the Dwarf Guildmasters like a weapon.
If your other characters are lucky, you can find them on adventure just like a weapon.
And so forth.

Granted Ehstevey, Andy, Gav, Ian and group were not making them to be a game changing device, but they are handy auxiliary maiming tools that can provide that last few straws to break the dragon's back!
quote:

Ehstevey wrote:
Generally speaking, WHQ is unfair enough as is, so in the group we tend to take whatever edge we can within reason. In this case it was particularly hilarious to see a blast of fire followed by an Araby Ogre appearing from nowhere and HASSAN CHOP! the dread king is taken out (having gotten the event before with -1 to our objective room encounter.


I have never understood people who claim that WHQ is unfair.
Granted, in all of the years, my groups have only lost one character ever.
When things start to get out of hand, we simply withdraw to the entrance.
There have been some seriously beaten up folks that have emerged from the entrance of many adventures, but far more often, they come out the exit happy to be alive and successful in their mission.

I agree - one should use every advantage one can find while on adventure.
I know my gaming group in Maryland were almost all DOD employees of some variety.
We often applied real-world tactical solutions to the problems we faced on adventure.
My current group has me, a member of the regional FBI SRT, a naval retiree from the silent service, two retired air force pilots, a retired Coastie, a former DEA agent, three police officers, a security contractor when he is not overseas, and several serious members of the local national guard unit.
Granted, there are seven more members with no service experience as well, but they pick up on stuff from the rest of us.

Moreover, we are even more strange; our games are documented and we go over a form of after action report with the group after one.
That way every one can learn from both the successes and the failures in each game.
The real plus for some folks is that they can go back over the adventures they missed due to whatever in life.

So personally, I do not find the game unfair so much as just simply challenging.
What you, yourself, bring to game in real world knowledge can really affect how well it plays.
quote:

Ehstevey wrote:
Furthermore, didn't even get to keep the double gold from the kill since I rolled a 1 after clearing the room :P


Our favorite saying here when something like that happens is, "That is the way the cookie crumbles."
Yes, along with our "No Devices at the Table" rule here, we have a "No Foul Language" rule too.
Yeah, I have heard it before - we are strange.

Ehstevey, bad luck happens, but you simply move on.
You focus on the successes or you get into a different game is my experience after decades of gaming.
quote:

Ehstevey wrote:
We'll mull over it a bit more (given their relative rarity, limitations and such). Probably won't come up again.

That's well behind us and now I'm getting 1,500g+ from the alehouse every settlement due to the Drink skill. Ogres are amazing, especially when you tag along a druid for double movement shenanigans (throw warrior + portal). Highly rate them until you start rolling 11 or 66 on those encounter tables, then you'll be praying someone has luck left.


Just have fun with it.

Also Ehstevey, I have some serious advice.
Do not be a "one trick pony".
Develop a team of characters to select from to play WHQ.
That way a game is never boring because you are not playing the same guy all the time.
Variety is the Spice of Life even in WHQ.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
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Littlemonk Profile
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Re: How do firebombs work?


We don't consider a Firebomb a Missile Weapon. We consider it an Item. We do not consider it a Magical Item.

Last edited by Littlemonk, 3/Feb/2015, 8:10 am


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Aellea Profile
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Re: How do firebombs work?


Lots of good points here, gents.

But back to firebombs, there is one question which sprung up in our last game (I haven't played the game foe eons, so it's all new to me... again emoticon):

Q: Can you target a 2x2 square (with a firebomb, firespell, Firestorm Icon or any other AoE damaging gizmo) which lies half off the board section? Meaning it is actually 2x1 against the wall?
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Re: How do firebombs work?


quote:

Aellea wrote:

Lots of good points here, gents.

But back to firebombs, there is one question which sprung up in our last game (I haven't played the game foe eons, so it's all new to me... again emoticon):

Q: Can you target a 2x2 square (with a firebomb, firespell, Firestorm Icon or any other AoE damaging gizmo) which lies half off the board section? Meaning it is actually 2x1 against the wall?



There is an answer in an FAQ that says YES you can. I just read it on The Museum site: #fireball]FAQ: Spells - Fireball. It even gives an illustration. emoticon

By the way, welcome to the Warhammer Quest message board!

Last edited by OldWarrior, 21/May/2015, 4:50 am


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God bless you, everyone!
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