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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Bretonnian Knight


On BTGM, in the podcast adventures that they do the party has a Bretonnian Knight with a Time Freeze Ring:
http://whquest.com/blog/time-freeze/

Is this not incorrect?
Is not the Knight limited to no
quote:

magic other than magical hand-to-hand weapons, magic armour or a healing potion.


?
Did I read the character book wrong folks?


(Littlemonk Edit: corrected spelling in title for 'search' possibilities in the future)

Last edited by Littlemonk, 17/Feb/2015, 3:03 pm


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In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
17/Feb/2015, 1:28 pm Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
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Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 423
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


There are two things happening on page 5 of the BK booklet, page 5 KNIGHTS AND TREASURE. The first is a "rule" that says what weapons the Bretonnian Knight can use (hand-to-hand weapons). Then it goes on to mention one deviation from that rule (missile weapons), as well as detailing the deviation (magic).


KNIGHTS AND TREASURE
The Knight may use a weapon other than the Broadsword as long as it is either a sword, an axe, or a mace. It is dishonourable for a Knight to use missile weapons, magic other than magical hand-to-hand weapons, magic armour or a healing potion.


What seems like an entire paragraph of steadfast rules, becomes the contrary, because there is the "Using a Missile Weapon" section below that, detailing:


Using a Missile Weapon
If the Knight breaks the rule of using dishonourable weaponry, such as a missile weapon of any type, his Honour Points are immediately reduced by the gold value of the weapon! This penalty is applied every time he uses the weapon.


So the argument now becomes, "What if the Bretonnian Knight uses dishonourable magic?" as mentioned in the Knights and Treasure section.

We play that it falls under the same category with the same penalties as listed in the Using a Missile Weapon section, since that section mentions "such as".

And if the Bretonnian Knight uses something like the Lightning Fire Ring, then he should be penalised twice (once using a missile weapon and once for using a magic item)!

Another argument is "If THAT part of the Knights and Treasure rules can be broken, can he use ANY weapon or magic item then and just take a penalty to his Honour Points?"

Again, we feel that the first part of the paragraph (the hand-to-hand weapons) is a steadfast rule, while the other part can be broken (using disnorouable weapons and magic). We think the sentences should have been separated into two paragraphs and the hand-to-hand clarified, just as it was in the Basic Game.


KNIGHTS AND TREASURE
The Knight may use a hand-to-hand weapon other than the Broadsword as long as it is either a sword, an axe, or a mace.

It is dishonourable for a Knight to use missile weapons or magic (other than magical hand-to-hand weapons, magic armour or a healing potion.)


This still leaves the dishonourable act of using magic which needs to be addressed...

Last edited by Littlemonk, 17/Feb/2015, 3:04 pm


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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


Therefore, a Knight can choose to be a real tosser and become the proverbial "Black Knight" by using a Time Freeze Ring among other dishonorable magic items and missile weapons.
Yes?

But can you really within the confines of WHQ as it was currently written?
Did I miss the rules for a negative reknown value?
Do the WHQ rules even allow for a Knight to turn their coat?

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Registered: 07-2008
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


In my opinion, they're playing the BK outside the rules. Without a GM, the players basically have to police themselves. Our group would not allow a BK to use the Time Freeze Ring.

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Ehstevey Profile
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Champion

Registered: 12-2014
Posts: 22
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Re: Bretonnian Knight


Given all the Bretonnian lore I've read and love, a lot of the characters aren't really that concerned with using magical items of any kind apart from missile weapons so long as it is considered 'manly'. I can understand spells and such being frowned upon (if you're an honourable fighter and good enough with a sword you'll never need any help is the basic mindset of a Bretonnian Knight).

However Bretonnian Knights will always take anything that has been given to them by the Lady. Heck they'd wear a dozen magical rings and go into battle with a repeater crossbow if it washed up on the shores of the magical lake (though they could also see it as a test of character and forgo it).

So the rules don't strictly forbid their use, but they are dishonourable items and will cause him to lose honour.

Your renown can never go below 0, you are always a knight as proven by the fluff in Mousillon (corrupt barons who will use anything and everything [including poison and allying with the Vampire Counts] to get the job done). They can't expect everyone to like them for it though, which is represented by the difficulty in gaining entrance to the castle. Infamy could be a good idea in place of honour (though we'd be getting into Blood Points territory for complexity).

However an alternate set of rules I've been thinking on go along the lines of straight up forbidding the use of dishonourable items (apart from missile weapons in which there are specific rules regarding the penalties for their use):

When a Bretonnian Knight acquires any treasure other than a magical weapon, shield or healing potion [which he may use as normal] (but never a missile weapon or a magical scroll), roll a d6, on a 5+, he is given a vision, and realizes that this item is a gift from the Lady herself! The Bretonnian Knight may use this item as normal with no loss to honour even in the eyes of other knights. He may never sell, trade or swap this item ever, convinced that it is a sign of divine providence and a tool vital to his search for the grail!
18/Feb/2015, 10:50 am Link to this post Send Email to Ehstevey   Send PM to Ehstevey Blog
 


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