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Warrior Monk Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Large Monster monsters


Back when WHQ came out, the 50mm monster base was just getting designed.
"Large Monster" figures were on a 40mm monster base typically.
Some of us put the larger monsters, never expected to be in ranks, on 50mm round titan bases.
They teetered around a lot less that way.
Did that especially with my Ork Squig Catapults' sguig loads after they hit, but that is of course W40K.

Any way, the question here is: does a "Large Monster" monster take up more than one square in WHQ?
If yes, does it take up squares in a 2x2 area that a 40mm monster base would mostly fill up while a 50mm monster base does completely fill and a 60mm monster base these days overflows?
If yes, does an area effect attack, like firebombs, do four squares of damage to the "Large Monster" monster because it takes up space in all of the squares affected?
Additionally if yes, to the second facet, would there be any additional concerns for the "Large Monster" monster when something like the "Pit of Despair" takes so much of its footing away?
Moreover if yes, again to the second facet, would "Window of the Void" have less of an effect upon a "Large Monster" monster who fills so much space?

Why ask?
Firestorm Icon and a Zombie Dragon.
6D6 damage over a 2x2 area.
76W happened in that space - Zombie Dragon has 75W - toasted critter?
I ruled "Yes."
Player said, "Fine, but ask the guys on-line."
So I am asking.

I am also asking over at BTGM.
As LittleMonk agreed, sometimes things get a little weird over there.
I am asking over there just to read where it might go.
You guys are the serious ones.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
14/Mar/2015, 5:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
RedDogMT Profile
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Hero

Registered: 11-2011
Posts: 54
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Re: Large Monster monsters


quote:

You guys are the serious ones.


Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!



Last edited by RedDogMT, 15/Mar/2015, 7:34 am
15/Mar/2015, 2:50 am Link to this post Send Email to RedDogMT   Send PM to RedDogMT Blog
 
Warrior Monk Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Re: Large Monster monsters


Thank you for your bit of levity here.
I forgot to be ..., well, I do not know.
I am not really a jocular fellow.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, ... .
Come on.

RedDog, you did a beautiful job of quoting pertinent sections of the RolePlay book over at BTGM, but you did not give an opinion.
Might you here now?

Anyone else too please?


---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
15/Mar/2015, 5:16 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
RedDogMT Profile
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Hero

Registered: 11-2011
Posts: 54
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Re: Large Monster monsters


Well! I never wanted to do this in the first place. I wanted to be... a lumberjack!
15/Mar/2015, 7:33 am Link to this post Send Email to RedDogMT   Send PM to RedDogMT Blog
 
Warrior Monk Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Re: Large Monster monsters


Sighhhhh.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
15/Mar/2015, 7:36 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
RedDogMT Profile
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Hero

Registered: 11-2011
Posts: 54
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Re: Large Monster monsters


OK, sorry, it was the whole 'serious' thing. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I sure made myself laugh. Ah Python... emoticon

I posted a follow-up over at BTGM...with only a bit of silliness. emoticon


...albatross... ...albatross...
15/Mar/2015, 8:12 am Link to this post Send Email to RedDogMT   Send PM to RedDogMT Blog
 
Warrior Monk Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Re: Large Monster monsters


Thank you Mr. Lumberjack-wanna-be.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
15/Mar/2015, 8:18 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
Edquest Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2011
Posts: 269
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Re: Large Monster monsters


I'm unaware of the large monster skill making it actually take up more squares...

I know this makes no sense, but it's a game rule mechanic and I don't expect them to necessarily make sense in the literal sense.

I certainly wouldn't enable spells or powers become suddenly 4 times more powerful against large monsters.
(firebombs would do 4D6 damage against large monsters but only 1D6 against an orc?)

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
15/Mar/2015, 7:13 pm Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
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God

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1266
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Re: Large Monster monsters


Because not everyone will be reading the forum over at the BTGM site, I post essentially my same reply here to this issue. BUT, I leave out some lines that were not interpretive of the rules.

I quote a short line from page 79: When moving a large Monster assume that it can move just as if it had a normal base.

I think, therefore, that a Large Monster can move through any opening that is a single square, or smaller than the monster is — whether it has the LARGE MONSTER special rule or whether it is just larger than a single-square monster. So, it seems to me that it could fall into a Pit of Despair, or be sucked into a Vortex of Destruction.

As for area effect, like Firebombs and some spells, I would say that we should ask ourselves “How does the description of the spell or object (or effect) read?”

The firebomb reads as follows: A firebomb may be thrown at any time and affects an area 2 squares by 2 squares. Any model in the area takes 1D6 Wounds, with no deductions for Toughness or armour.

So, I think it is fairly clear by the wording that a single monster (any model in the area) would only suffer 1D6 wounds one time from a single Firebomb, because it does NOT say that every model in the area takes 1D6 wounds per square that it takes up.

The wording of the Firestorm spell is similar in that it says All Monsters on the targeted area suffer 6D6 Wounds (roll once for all the Monsters).

---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
16/Mar/2015, 1:47 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Warrior Monk Profile
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Lord

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
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Re: Large Monster monsters


quote:

Edquest wrote:
... .

I certainly wouldn't enable spells or powers become suddenly 4 times more powerful against large monsters.
(firebombs would do 4D6 damage against large monsters but only 1D6 against an orc?)


Edquest, it is not more powerful.
The large monster is taking in the entire effect of the blast.
The orc is only being affected by a quarter of the blast.
Does it, presented that way, make for more sense to you Edquest?


I simply have to disagree Old Warrior.
Have any of you experienced area effect weapons in person?
Having experienced area effect weapons in real life, I cannot agree with that one line taken in isolation.
It does not apply and makes no sense Old Warrior with you ignoring every other line in that paragraph on page 79 that RedDog quoted over at BTGM presented here now.
quote:

Some Citadel miniatures are supplied on bases larger than the Monsters in the Warhammer Quest box. These take up the appropriate number of squares on the Warhammer Quest board. In most cases this is easy to resolve using common sense: it is quite easy to get two Ogres side-by-side in a corridor if you overlap their bases. When moving a large Monster assume that it can move just as if it had a normal base. As long as you use your common sense and all the players agree you shouldn’t have too many problems.


I do not see from the paragraph as a whole and my real life experience with area effect weapons, how you could be correct with a firebomb (really a grenade) and it only slightly effecting a dragon when said dragon is not on the edge of the blast zone, but is present in the entire blast zone.
Sorry Old Warrior.

With how few area effect weapons the characters have access to and how few monsters are Large Monsters and cannot be mounted on bases smaller than 40mm, I believe it is one of the few oversights that Andy J et al missed.
From the RolePlay book Pg.21:
quote:

Firebomb
A firebomb may be thrown at any time and affects an area 2 squares by 2 squares. Any model in the area takes 1D6 Wounds, with no deductions for Toughness or armour. Your Warrior may buy any number of Firebombs, up to the number available.


Said area effect weapon affects a 2x2 area.
Commonly, ~96% of the time, that area will only be filled with four models that have either a 20mm or 25mm bases and the rules as COMPLETELY written makes perfect sense.
If in the 3.5% of the time where there are two goblin wolf riders or other cavalry base models filling the area, then the models get 2D6 damage each.
If said monster/model fills the entire area, then said monster is effected by the entirety of the blast.
How can you interpret that any different?!?

This rule interpretation then applies to all other area effect weapons in the game.

When a bomb blows up, what kills you folks?
The pressure wave?
The debris carried by the pressure wave?
The temperature generated?
Any incendiary effect of the bomb?
The answer depends on where you are in the blast zone.
All of it kills you if you are right there filling the blast zone.
Dragon was right there.

If the dragon is right there with the firebomb covering the entire area of the blast from it, how can you excuse it getting hit by only one quarter of the blast?
You simply cannot.

I have had a really rotten day.
I then ran into this set of replies.
To make sure of my stand, I watched a couple short training protocols on grenades and close air support.
Gentlemen, I just cannot succumb to the opinions presented.
If need be, I will have the gaming group here watch the protocols and maybe even take them out to the national lab live ammo training facility and watch what happens when an area effect weapon goes off.
It just makes no sense whatsoever that a monster that takes up the entirety of a blast zone would be only affected by a quarter of it.

Sorry gentlemen, I cannot just go with the crowd on this one.

Last edited by Warrior Monk, 16/Mar/2015, 12:04 pm


---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
16/Mar/2015, 11:54 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 


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