Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo


runboard.com       Register for a free global account (learn about it) | Log in: (), globally (lost password?)

Page:  1  2  3  4 

 
Littlemonk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator
Global user

Registered: 07-2008
Posts: 418
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


We generally play that a Monster takes up however many spaces it's base occupies. However, we have been known to "share" a Monster's base with other models (overlaping), even standing another model (Warrior or other Monster) on top of the Monster's unused base portion. We just do what works.

Last edited by Littlemonk, 21/Mar/2015, 4:20 am


---
Blessed are the curious for they shall have adventures.
21/Mar/2015, 4:20 am Link to this post Send Email to Littlemonk   Send PM to Littlemonk
 
Edquest Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord
Global user

Registered: 09-2011
Posts: 268
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


what happens with a hellfire sword on a 6 to hit?

just curious because the sword makes the target and every model adjacent to the target take 1D6 wounds per battlelevel with no modifiers, including the wielder. (in addition to normal damage on the target)

if the wielder hits a large monster like a dragon and that dragon is using 2x2 squares on the board...

does the dragon take this effect 4 times?
once for being hit by the sword and another 3 times for being adjacent to the square that took the hit?

alternatively, if the dragon only takes the hit once does this expand the "adjacent models" area of effect? (because a 2x2 area is adjacent to more squares than a 1x1 area)

I'm not intending to be facetious here, just exploring how other weapons with similar effects work out.

actually there could be some interesting spells thinking about it. dome of power comes to mind, it effects a number of connected squares, but a monster taking up 2x2 squares could be in and out of the spell effect...

---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
21/Mar/2015, 5:44 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
Warrior Monk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord
Global user

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


Thank you LittleMonk.
I see your method.

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
21/Mar/2015, 7:25 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God
Global user

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1266
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


quote:

Edquest wrote:

what happens with a hellfire sword on a 6 to hit?

just curious because the sword makes the target and every model adjacent to the target take 1D6 wounds per battlelevel with no modifiers, including the wielder. (in addition to normal damage on the target)

if the wielder hits a large monster like a dragon and that dragon is using 2x2 squares on the board...

does the dragon take this effect 4 times?
once for being hit by the sword and another 3 times for being adjacent to the square that took the hit?

alternatively, if the dragon only takes the hit once does this expand the "adjacent models" area of effect? (because a 2x2 area is adjacent to more squares than a 1x1 area)

I'm not intending to be facetious here, just exploring how other weapons with similar effects work out.

actually there could be some interesting spells thinking about it. dome of power comes to mind, it effects a number of connected squares, but a monster taking up 2x2 squares could be in and out of the spell effect...



My comments are based upon a fresh reading of the descriptions of the Hellfire Sword and of the Dome of power spell.

I think the sword would only do damage once to the target and once to each model adjacent to the target. So, it could potentially harm more models, both Warriors and monsters.

The Dome of Power spell specifically states that it may be of "any shape". The squares just have to be connected. IF the Wizard chose to include a square that had part of a large monster in it, I would think that the monster would be affected by the spell, even though the rest of its body falls outside the area of effect. It would be the Wizard's decision to include that monster or not which would determine whether it were affected or not.

Also notice that the spell's description states "up to one square of the board per
Battle-level". So, the Wizard gets to decide the number of squares affected from one to his current Battle-Level. Thus, between deciding the size AND the shape of the dome of power, it fairly unlikely that a monster would be accidentally (or necessarily) included in the area of effect.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 21/Mar/2015, 2:50 pm


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
21/Mar/2015, 2:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
QuestingKnight Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord
Global user

Registered: 06-2009
Posts: 79
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


It's been too long since my group and I have played, but I thought I'd weigh-in with with some thoughts.

Just re-read the Monster's Base Sizes section of the Bestiary on page 79 of the RPB, and the amount of space a monster takes up on the board is stated to be the 'appropriate number of squares', with players called-upon to use common sense, with an example of it being possible to fit two Ogres side-by-side in a corridor if you overlap the bases.

So the amount of space a Monster takes up is up to the players, with the base size as a reference point and a seeming desire from the authors for players to squeeze the Monsters onto the board when you need to.

In terms of the damage, I'd argue strongly that the model always counts as one model. If each model in an area suffers an effect or some damage, then it is applied once to the Monster, as the effect is applied per Monster, not per square. Not worried about verisimilitude here, if players want to add more they can agree an appropriate mechanic that represents their understanding and view of the world and use that instead.

As for adjacent models, that'd be any and all models in a square next to the Monster, which is potentially more squares than a model with a base taking up a single square.

That seems like a pragmatic approach to me that does not flout the rules as I understand them, but then I would say that :-)

And obviously, the text of the rulebook does imply that the players get to decide a certain amount for themselves, even in the rules-as-written. So I guess just try and reach an agreement with your group somehow.

As always, discussion is good and keeps this game alive; keep it professional and have fun!

QK

Last edited by QuestingKnight, 22/Mar/2015, 8:41 am


---
Questing Knight

Visit the Imperial Vault - Warhammer Quest Rules, Warriors, Monsters and Articles
22/Mar/2015, 8:39 am Link to this post Send Email to QuestingKnight   Send PM to QuestingKnight
 
Edquest Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord
Global user

Registered: 09-2011
Posts: 268
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


woah I just though about the wizard with firestorm spell, or anyone with a firestorm icon.
so for a measly 12 power one large monster would take 24D6 damage?
(6D6 per square)

that averages 84 wounds damage with no modifiers and a dragon only has 75 (I think, certainly in the 70s).



---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.

have a great day :D
23/Mar/2015, 4:15 am Link to this post Send Email to Edquest   Send PM to Edquest Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God
Global user

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1266
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


quote:

Edquest wrote:

woah I just though about the wizard with firestorm spell, or anyone with a firestorm icon.
so for a measly 12 power one large monster would take 24D6 damage?
(6D6 per square)

that averages 84 wounds damage with no modifiers and a dragon only has 75 (I think, certainly in the 70s).





I think this makes a strong case for NOT allowing one instance of area effect damage to hit a single model more than once. I still DO see the logic in what Warrior Monk said about how explosives work and etc... Yes, it might seem that I am on the fence, but I like to weigh the various sides of an issue. emoticon

Sometimes in a game I think certain limitations are needed. Not always do game rules specify logic/reasoning enough to satisfy our minds, but still they will lay down the law (so to speak) in order to help prevent things from becoming too out of balance one way or another.

Yet again, I remember something that sort of compares to this killing of a dragon with one spell. Remember that if a Warrior has a Frost Blade and causes just 1 wound (after all deductions and abilities are resolved), then it kills the monster outright. It can only be used for one turn per Adventure and it limits the wielder's Attacks to just ONE for that turn, but it CAN also cause a death-blow! Imagine cutting down two or three large monsters in one turn with that sword. emoticon

How many Frost Blades does your Warrior have? In my experience my Warriors have almost never had one!

Last edited by OldWarrior, 23/Mar/2015, 7:06 am


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
23/Mar/2015, 6:58 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
Warrior Monk Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Lord
Global user

Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
Posts: 281
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


quote:

Edquest wrote:
woah I just though about the wizard with firestorm spell, or anyone with a firestorm icon.
so for a measly 12 power one large monster would take 24D6 damage?
(6D6 per square)

that averages 84 wounds damage with no modifiers and a dragon only has 75 (I think, certainly in the 70s).


1) Dragons 74W
Great Dragons 84W
Emperor Dragon 94W
Plus, they have Magic Ambush A with their Breath Weapon.
Just how many of the characters are going to be present to attack the dragons?

2) Measly 12 Power?
Boy, your experience must be filled with Wizard characters that cheated regularly for their treasures, starting power and recharges for 12 points of Power being just measly.
Otherwise you would know that 12 points expended any time in the course of an adventure is not a measly matter whatsoever.

3) Expending the needed combination of training dice rolls to secure a 12 point spell is taking quite the chance that you are really not going to have the spells you really need later.
Most dead wizards I know of have over reached themselves in that fashion.
This spell should be fairly rare among lower and middle level wizards.

4) Just how common is the Firestorm icon?
It is only from treasure pack 2.
It is an Objective Room treasure.
Are some of you handing out objective room treasures like candy?!?
Furthermore, do you just hand out one of the only three 2000g Objective Room treasure items in the game with the completion of just any old adventure?!?!?

This should be a rare Objective Room treasure item and will be.
First of all because of the highway robbery prices any treasure card packs are going for these days, let alone TP#2.
Some are selling at more than 10x suggested retail price!
Second, some of you do not use the treasure cards at all - you use the tables.
There is NO firestorm icon on the tables!

Are we or someone individually looking to make a lone volcano far away from civilization into Vesuvius or Etna?

---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
23/Mar/2015, 9:42 am Link to this post Send Email to Warrior Monk   Send PM to Warrior Monk Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God
Global user

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1266
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


I think we must also remember that many of the more dangerous high-level monsters will have Magic Resistance, or Magic Dispel, or a magic item that gives Magic Resistance, or some combination of these things.

Although Dragon's do not have Magic Resistance, they are LARGE MONSTERs and they have Terror (12 or higher)!

quote:

LARGE MONSTER

Any offensive spells cast against a Large Monster require a number of extra points of Power, equal to the level of the Monster Table that generated the Monster, to cast.



So, a Dragon would add at least 8 to the cost of a spell that is cast against it, being generated from the level 8 Monster Table.

Then Terror,

quote:

Terror

If a Wizard fails his Terror roll any spells he attempts to cast against that Monster have their Casting Numbers increased by +2.



This would make the spell cost 2 more, IF the Wizard is terrified of the Dragon.

Total potential cost of the Firestorm spell against a level 8 Dragon: 12 + 8 +2 = 22! For level 9 and 10 Dragons, it would be 23 or 24 respectively, assuming the Wizard failed his Terror test.

A level 7 or level 8 Wizard could have quite a bit of Power Tokens, but their current power would be a maximum of 13 or 14 respectively (assuming the best roll in the Power Phase).

Last edited by OldWarrior, 24/Mar/2015, 4:21 am


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
24/Mar/2015, 4:17 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 
OldWarrior Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

God
Global user

Registered: 04-2006
Location: USA, Western hemisphere, earth
Posts: 1266
Reply | Quote
Re: Large Monster monsters


This brings up another issue concerning LARGE MONSTERS, does the extra casting cost stack when the spell would affect or target more than one LARGE MONSTER?

I am undecided yet, but I think I currently would tell the Wizard's player to spend the greatest amount of power required by one of those monsters -- whichever has the greater requirement.

Last edited by OldWarrior, 24/Mar/2015, 4:29 am


---
Old Warrior

Check out Bible Notes
It is one of my favorite places on the Internet.
God bless you, everyone!
24/Mar/2015, 4:25 am Link to this post Send Email to OldWarrior   Send PM to OldWarrior Blog
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2  3  4 





You are not logged in (login)