wreade1872
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Registered: 02-2012
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Downscaling Warriors
We all know that most quests or quest packs are only designed for low level warriors. I've tried upscaling some of these on occasion but they tend to lose much of their original flavour.
So since upscaling the monsters hasn't worked i've decided to try downscaling the warriors instead  .
My plan is that when i want to play one of these dungeons i downscale the warriors upon entry and they pop back to normal at the end of the dungeon, plus or minus any changes that have occurred during the quest. This idea could also be used to permanently downgrade warriors in which case you'd also need a rule regarding Gold which i havn't bothered with.
Also if any equipment is lost in the dungeon it's selected from their full equipment sheet.
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Anyway so here is my first untested draft for downscaling Warriors to any Battle-Level:
Starting equipment doesn't count towards any of the limitations. Edit:Ignore line in italics If no weapon or armour is selected it may be filled by a starting item ie: if the Wizard is left with no sword he may take one, Elf with no bow gains starting bow, Barbarian with no bodyarmour gains Furs etc.
Items or abilities which are guaranteed to only last through the next adventure also do NOT count towards limitations.
Step 1: Work backwards through Battle-Level Wounds column reducing wounds by D6 for each appropriate drop, rerolling 1's once each.
Step 2: Work backwards through Battle-Level Skills column randomly removing skills for each appropriate drop.
Step 2: Work backwards through other Battle-Level columns reducing stats for each appropriate drop.
Step 4: Each warrior may keep a combined number of Weapon and Armour treasure items equal to the New Battle-Level.
Step 5: Each warrior may keep a number of other treasure items equal to the New Battle-Level.
Runes/Sigils etc from treasure cards count separately from the weapon they are on. They may be removed as needed.
Step 6: Each warrior may keep up to 2x(New Battle-Level) of purchasable or non-magic items.
Groups of items of the same type count as 1 item for this purpose. 6 Firebombs only counts as 1 etc.
Purchasable improvements to items (dwarf runes etc.) each count as 1 item.
Step 7: Each warrior keeps a number of minor abilities up to 2x(New Battle-Level), select at random, this includes any permanent stat increases due to events, each stat increase counts as 1 minor ability.
Ignore any Permanent Wound increases for this limit, even if you distinctly remember gaining some from an event.
Disabilities should be kept or discarded randomly using the same methods.
When in doubt as to the origin of an item it counts as a purchasable/non-magic, unless its obviously powerful in which case it counts as a treasure item, use common sense if available.
Any other anomalies count as minor abilities as per Step 7. Everything must count as something except where otherwise indicated.
Step 8: Double check skills/equipment for Battle-Level appropriateness. Eg. Make sure the Dwarf's axe doesn't have too many runes etc.
Golden Rule: Downscaling can never add anything new to a warrior.
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Obviously the Pitfighter, Wizard, Chaos Warrior etc will require a bit of extra work to convert  .
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So thats my first attempt, i've converted a couple of people so far and they seem in decent shape but not too powerful but i've yet to make dungeon tests.
Any opinions, suggestions or comments welcome .
Edit: Update 1:
Optional Step 9: Ensure that no warrior's Wounds total exceeds assumed rolls of all 6's. This can be changed to all 5's, 4's etc if the Warriors are still looking too buff .
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WARRIOR SPECIFICS:
Wizard: For his spells, roll the appropriate number of dice to get from Battle-Level 1 to New Battle-Level ie. if New Battle-Level is 3 roll (BL2+BL3)=5 dice.
The normal method of selecting spells doesn't work very well in this scenario, so instead simply total the result. The Wizard can choose to keep any spells he knows which have a combined Casting Cost equal to or less than the total result.
Pit Fighter: Work out the total training points gained between the New Battle-Level and the current one. To account for some of the extra points he now doubt acquired along the way do this sum (CurrentBattlevel - New BattleLevel)x2 and add the result to the previous total, this is the Training Points Tally which must be removed.
Make the reductions in this order:
The warrior may have a maximum of one skill per level. Randomly select which ones to keep and remove the rest and reduce the training points tally by the relevant amount.
Now start making Wounds rolls (rerolling a 1 once each) and reduce his wounds accordingly. Also reduce the training points tally accordingly. Repeat until his wounds are less than or equal to 8+(6xNew Battle-Level), ie. his maximum potential wounds.
Now the warrior must make stat reductions worth the remaining training point tally. These reductions can include his remaining skill or wounds.
Last edited by wreade1872, 27/Aug/2016, 11:20 am
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26/Aug/2016, 8:57 pm
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Littlemonk
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
I don't understand why upscaling Monsters doesn't work for you? That's what the Monster Level Tables are for.
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28/Aug/2016, 9:40 am
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wreade1872
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
quote:
Littlemonk wrote:
I don't understand why upscaling Monsters doesn't work for you? That's what the Monster Level Tables are for.
Well if you play something like Lair of the Orc Warlord on level 7 then you have to either spend hours trying to create a themed battle-level 7 or just use the standard one in which case whats the point in even playing Lair of the Orc Warlord.
Plus even on level 3-5 which are provided the special characters are now completely underpowered and you again either have to completely rewrite them or have these cool new characters be completely useless.
The majority of quests people have written have special characters or rules which only work properly on low levels.
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28/Aug/2016, 3:13 pm
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Warrior Monk
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Registered: 09-2013
Location: Northern Rockies
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
quote:
Littlemonk wrote:
I don't understand why upscaling Monsters doesn't work for you? That's what the Monster Level Tables are for.
I was starting to think I was the only one.
Thank you Littlemonk for relieving my isolation.
wreade1872, everything Littlemonk said is all you need to do.
If you want something more for special characters at higher levels, then enhance what is already there with what you can see in "stronger" versions is all you need to do.
The point of this thread I just do not see because I have done what Littlemonk said here to do for years, even decades now.
---
In service of Deity, the Latter-day Prophet, the de la Valette and mankind.
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28/Aug/2016, 5:14 pm
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wreade1872
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
Well i too have upscaled monsters for years and its never fun plus how can characters like Gunninz and Growler from Lair of the Orc Warlord be upgraded to level 7 or something it just doesn't work.
But even taking something simpler, i recently played the quest the Black Wight
http://www.wqchronicles.com/quests/theblackwight.htm
And in this case i went through the trouble of upgrading the character and his minions to a higher level but by the time i was done it had lost all of its original flavour.
BUT putting aside all that there are other circumstances where downscaling could be useful. For example level 10 warriors might simply get bored and downscaling to a lowere level might be a nice change of pace.
OR What happens if only 1 or 2 high level warriors make it out of a dungeon?
The usual option if you want to keep going is to roll up new warriors to the high level but then you lose chance to see them advance naturally.
Well downscaling can be an alternative to that too.
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28/Aug/2016, 10:34 pm
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Edquest
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
lair of the orc lord is only for levels 2-3 though, there are tables for 4-5 but they admit in the book itself that it doesn't scale well after that.
orcs and goblins are just not that powerful in the scheme of things.
the undead expansion goes to level 7 I think (? not got this myself) and after that you really want to be looking elsewhere.
(that being said undead are pretty reliable from level 1 to 10 due to high level vampires, necromancers, liches and "definitely not Nagash" the liche king.)
no scaling character monsters up like gubbinz etc, just use higher level monster tables.
if you really want to find a comparable monster and add the skills, but i'd prefer to make a more thematic ability for the appropriate enemy.
for the record i've played 3 parties of warriors to level 10 and never had this issue
---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.
have a great day :D
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1/Sep/2016, 5:30 am
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Sir Questalot
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
I see the point of scaling a Quest... but
only on the Monster side! Has anyone done
a chart scaling Gorgut to each BL Monster Table? Something like "Treat Gorgut as a
Orc War Boss for Warriors of 4-5 BL"
(Not sure on the 4-5, just threw it out there)
U could even change the War Boss slightly to
keep the Gorgut-y flavor. It would be nice to be able to scale all the characters from LairOTOL and CatacombsODeath.
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8/Sep/2016, 7:17 am
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Littlemonk
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
quote:
Sir Questalot wrote:
I see the point of scaling a Quest... but
only on the Monster side! Has anyone done
a chart scaling Gorgut to each BL Monster Table? Something like "Treat Gorgut as a
Orc War Boss for Warriors of 4-5 BL"
(Not sure on the 4-5, just threw it out there)
U could even change the War Boss slightly to
keep the Gorgut-y flavor. It would be nice to be able to scale all the characters from LairOTOL and CatacombsODeath.
I've only done LOTOL through Level 5 and the Undead Expansion through Level 4. They're on my Monster Tables and Bestiary section. Plans to go through Level 10... eventually...
WHQ Customized - link to Monster Tables & Bestiaries
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8/Sep/2016, 1:21 pm
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Edquest
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Re: Downscaling Warriors
if you want to upscale Gorgut there is the RPG adventure final showdown in which he has got harder, cannot remember his exact characteristics but he is plenty tougher than the normal Gorgut in the book/on the cards
the other thing about the jester dude is that at level 1 his ability to dodge attacks reliably is a pain as everyone has only one attack, at level 2 half the warriors will still have only one attack but by level 5-6 most will have 2-3 attacks, treasure will give some even more.
so the ability just doesn't scale quite as well.
---
most of my posts may run into essay length. I find that for a lot of queries/feedback context is important and that is why this happens more often than not.
have a great day :D
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9/Sep/2016, 7:14 am
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